Videos: picking tubular bike locks with a bic pen

[Cat]

These are pretty amusing in case no one has seen them:

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/09/14/opening_a_pricey_bik.html

[mbell]

Similar to Security.org's security report on Kensington's laptop locks.

I still can't see the theory of how this is possible. Do the locks only use a couple of the seven pinsor something like that?

From what I see at the moment, it just seems like luck to me - Get a lock with sloppy tolerances with pins of similar heights.

[Cat]

From what I see at the moment, it just seems like luck to me - Get a lock with sloppy tolerances with pins of similar heights.

Yep thats mostly what it is, luck. Same principles as raking. Some locks you can't rake very well because one of the bottom pins is set sitting very low in the keyway and the one behind and/or infront might need to be set very deep. Same principle with these tubular locks I'd guess.

I got this link of here by the way.

http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/15/1826240&tid=172&tid=126&tid=6

[hzatorsk]

mbell,

Sloppy tolerances (very sloppy) is the primary reason.

the Kensington lock has five pins. It is missing the 12, 3, and 9 oclock position. (Pins at 11,2,5,6,7 oclock). That is somewhat visible in the security.org pics. But, they are indeed all keyed differently.

It is sorta an impressioning method. The cardboard softens due to the pressure of the pins/springs. Your cardboard 'key' isn't reusable. You gotta cut out a fresh one to do it again. Pushing the pins down past the shear line and twisting slightly creates soft spots in the cardboard where the pins are. The soft spots let the pins rise until the drivers hit the shear line.

This is not really different than the expensive tubular pick theory of operation.

[Pheniox]

LOL!

Look at the responces that locks are not unbeatable. I am laughing so hard right now at most of the replys

"Time to get a Master or other high security padlock...."




More added:
Our site just appeared on the board for it. Prepare for the people to flock over here and begin calling us thieves and so on. Over 40 hits just happened in 3 minutes :S

NOTE TO ALL BIKE LOCK OWNERS.

Do NOT troll here, as I will ban you instantly. You have your forum, we have ours. If you do not agree with us talking about this, close your browser, go back to your forum, and never return.

[Cat]

Heh, I actually posted the link to http://lockpicking101.com but it has to be modded up on that site to be more viewable.

I don't think you have to fret THAT much about people who read slashdot coming over here saying we're thieves. Hackers know better than that, as they are constantly referred to as criminals by the media, and most don't like that association because it is mostly untrue.

[r6dink.]

LOL!



NOTE TO ALL BIKE LOCK OWNERS.

Do NOT troll here, as I will ban you instantly. You have your forum, we have ours. If you do not agree with us talking about this, close your browser, go back to your forum, and never return.[/color]

on the contrary, I think you guys have done a great service by putting this into a public forum rather than allowing it to remain in a few wrong channels.

my question for yu now though since you seem to have quite a bit of knowledge on the topic...

if you had to secure a multi-thousand dollar toy (or motorcycle) with a hardened chain (kryptonites new york chain) what brand and model lock would you recommend that is both secure enough yet small enough that it isnt much of an inconvenience (preferably about the size of the evo disck locks)

[Cat]

Sargent & Greenleaf comes to mind.

[r6dink.]

is that one company or 2 different companies (im not very well versed in the lock industry) and do they make one roughly the size of the evo2000? as it needs to be large enough to be secured around a motorcycle rotor sometimes. and the new york chain doesnt have the smallest of links.

[Varjeal]

Master Lock makes a product called "Street Cuffs" which I'm sure you could easily envision. Not sure if bypass info is public, but I haven't personally found an easy way yet. There are several models that use various configurations, all with a 10 pin (all pins present) tubular lock with hardened chain that is very thick, and pivots that I believe are stainless. Of course, since they're basically a super H.D. version of cuffs, they can be folded and stored away and I believe even come with a fancy "holster" as a container. (That option extra of course.)

They are confident enough in their product that they offer "insurance" ranging from $3500 to $5000 for certain models if your ride is stolen through destruction of the lock. That in itself is pretty impressive. Btw, Master Lock Co. If you read this, I want commission from all sales gained through this.

[Pheniox]

LOL!



NOTE TO ALL BIKE LOCK OWNERS.

Do NOT troll here, as I will ban you instantly. You have your forum, we have ours. If you do not agree with us talking about this, close your browser, go back to your forum, and never return.[/color]

on the contrary, I think you guys have done a great service by putting this into a public forum rather than allowing it to remain in a few wrong channels.

my question for yu now though since you seem to have quite a bit of knowledge on the topic...

if you had to secure a multi-thousand dollar toy (or motorcycle) with a hardened chain (kryptonites new york chain) what brand and model lock would you recommend that is both secure enough yet small enough that it isnt much of an inconvenience (preferably about the size of the evo disck locks)

Glad you think so.

I would use a shrouded Abloy, Medeco, or Bi-Lock. Thats just me.

242 on that one

the back one

the right one



On the chain, I would find oen that couldn't be cut/lanced. Not into chains, so that one is past my knowledge. Your best bet is to search the forums and the internet :S

http://www.medeco.com/products/products ... ction_ID=4
http://www.bilock.com/padlock.htm
http://www.teamlogisticscorp.com/abloy.htm

[r6dink.]

i see the obvious benefits of the shrouded shackle. I think the hardest part is gonna be finding dealers for these locks...cause i'm sure home depot doesnt carry them. lol

i guess i just need to find a lock that is big enough to fit 2 links of the kryptonite chain cause i use it in a loop (which is quite the badass chain in all honesty) as well as big enough to fit around my front brake rotor when i dont use the chain.

[r6dink.]

oh. and what kinds of prices should i be expecting?

[AJolly]

Heh, I actually posted the link to http://lockpicking101.com but it has to be modded up on that site to be more viewable.

I don't think you have to fret THAT much about people who read slashdot coming over here saying we're thieves. Hackers know better than that, as they are constantly referred to as criminals by the media, and most don't like that association because it is mostly untrue.

Agreed. There is a huge link between hackers and lockpickers....speaking from experience, coming from the hacking side of things. I mean, theres a reason Matt Blaze, Marc Tobias, & Barry "The Key" Wels gave a talk on lockpicking at HOPE - hackers on planet earth convention earlier this year. In my opinion, lockpicking *is* hacking. It's all about the art of learning a system (physical or electronic), and analyzing it, learning how to use it, and how to interact with it that its makers often diddn't intend.

[spellbound]

Here is the video link to opening the kyrpto with a bic pen.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.ph ... ge=5&pp=25