Picking high lift pin at rear infront of low lift?

[SnowyBoy]

I was just testing one of my union cutaways & pin 5 (9) is a high lift pin, but pin 4 is a 1. I'm having trouble even with my hook pick!

Any suggestions for a pick to try?

Thanks

[cryptocat]

A carefully bent paperclip?

High lift masked by low lift deep in side the lock is kind of annoying. It's more by luck than skill that I get those, but I generally get them with a short hook.

[FarmerFreak]

If you have the room to use a larger hook than you should try that. But if you can't, and you usually can't. As a general rule, you should be able to pick it the other direction. It is all about which pin binds first, and in those situations a lot times you will have to pick it whichever way the last pin binds first. Basically you will need to be able to pick the 5th pin, and then let the 4th pin drop back down without letting the 5th pin drop.

[Solomon]

The ERA rim cylinder I have has 2 high pins at the back. My technique is to alternate between SPP and rocking the pick over the pins. It's kinda hard to explain, but I can crack it pretty consistently even with the TW taking up space at the bottom of the keyway (top tension just isn't my thing). A short hook or half diamond works just fine, and the S rake in particular makes pretty short work of it.

[SnowyBoy]

If you have the room to use a larger hook than you should try that. But if you can't, and you usually can't. As a general rule, you should be able to pick it the other direction. It is all about which pin binds first, and in those situations a lot times you will have to pick it whichever way the last pin binds first. Basically you will need to be able to pick the 5th pin, and then let the 4th pin drop back down without letting the 5th pin drop.

Tried that! Pin 5 won't stay set whilst the top of pin 4 is binded. I'm going to have a go making a bit of a taller hook pick.

[lunchb0x]

Try picking the lock in the other direction so the binding order changes that way you might be able to get the back pin first, other than that i use a hook pick with a big hook on it to get around the pin, works most the time.

[FarmerFreak]

Tried that! Pin 5 won't stay set whilst the top of pin 4 is binded. I'm going to have a go making a bit of a taller hook pick.

It is possible to have the 4th pin bind first in both directions. It isn't very common, but yeah it happens. Hopefully you can get the larger hook in there without a problem. You may end up having to key bump/pick gun this lock to open it. And then you could make the claim that it is single pin pick resistant.

[LocksmithArmy]

It is possible to have the 4th pin bind first in both directions. It isn't very common, but yeah it happens.

ok just an idea on this comment... why dont you make a lock with the 4th pin a 9 and have its diameter bigger than theother pins. the 5th pin is a 1 and since the 4yh pin is bigger it will always bind first...

SPP resistant...

[FarmerFreak]

ok just an idea on this comment... why dont you make a lock with the 4th pin a 9 and have its diameter bigger than theother pins. the 5th pin is a 1 and since the 4yh pin is bigger it will always bind first...

you can. The easiest way to do it would simply be to re-drill the last chamber a little larger. ....But... you will run into problems with the last pin wanting to roll over and jamming in the lock. So this idea wouldn't be recommended for regular use. (note: old chrysler pin tumbler locks had this issue since the pins were much smaller than the chambers)

So if you want to have a difficult lock to pick. By all means, have fun.

[LocksmithArmy]

ok just an idea on this comment... why dont you make a lock with the 4th pin a 9 and have its diameter bigger than theother pins. the 5th pin is a 1 and since the 4yh pin is bigger it will always bind first...

you can. The easiest way to do it would simply be to re-drill the last chamber a little larger. ....But... you will run into problems with the last pin wanting to roll over and jamming in the lock. So this idea wouldn't be recommended for regular use. (note: old chrysler pin tumbler locks had this issue since the pins were much smaller than the chambers)

So if you want to have a difficult lock to pick. By all means, have fun.

ya i posted the idea in TOSL

i may actually try it when i get bakc in town

[Viggs]

I was just testing one of my union cutaways & pin 5 (9) is a high lift pin, but pin 4 is a 1. I'm having trouble even with my hook pick!

Any suggestions for a pick to try?

I used to run into that problem a lot when I only had a short hook and a long hook. My solution was to order 5 long hooks and grind/finish each one a little lower than the last. In the end, I had six, progressively deep hooks, and my problem was solved.