Bogota's

[SALocksmith]

I recently purchased some Bogota's from serepick.com, I've been in the locksmith trade for about 3 years, As much as I want to love them im having a hard time seeing what the big deal is. I've been picking with standard HPC pick's for a long time and i've gotten used to them. They seem to be alot more rigid then these serepick bogata's, it feels like the bogota's "give" under pressure from the pins, like they don't fully press the pins up. Plus im afraid of breaking them since they where 40$. Maybe im being to critical on them, my boss did make fun of me for buying 40$ set of picks, I could buy an entire set of HPC's for less. I'll keep at it I guess..

[SALocksmith]

I meant to mention, the locks that I could not pick before, I still can't pick with these. Namely low/high bittings of Kwikset and Schlage, bittings like 61616, locks' i've intentionally pinned to be difficult. Couldent do it before, and can't now.. was hoping maybe these would do the trick.

[pin_pusher]

sorry to say, but they don't look like much that couldn't be made by hand. the design is different, they just don't seem comfortable either. sorry if you got a bunk deal, but keep them around for who-knows-what they could be better for. let us know if there IS an advantage of these picks over other.

[Squelchtone]

sorry to say, but they don't look like much that couldn't be made by hand. the design is different, they just don't seem comfortable either.

hahaha.. do you not realize that originally they WERE ONLY MADE BY HAND by forum member Raimundo?

Bogotas are incredibly effective if you know the correct procedure for using them, and the hand made ones came in several different sizes and variations, which made them easier to hold, and comfort wasn't an issue because they would open the lock so fast, your hands didn't have time to feel uncomfortable.

Rai and Serepick worked together on saving rai's hands and time by making the picks by machine. Sure they're not as shiny or as hand made as an original set by rai, but to me they're just as good. My only issue is that for my big hands the machine made ones are a little small, so the handles are harder to grip for me.

You can still order a real set or raimundo Bogotas, either Rai or Serepick or other's on this forum have sets kicking around.

If you do wish to make your own, plenty of us have, and there are some great stickies and instructions on how to do so using street sweeper bristles, a chainsaw file, some sand papers, and some time.

Just to put things in perspective, I've raked open a Medeco in the field using a set of Raimundo Bogotas, so to me they're much more effective than the rest of my kit, especially since the Bogotas were in my wallet, and my pick set wasn't on my person that day. And their portability is yet another reason why they're totally awesome.

enjoy the rest of your weekend everyone!
Squelchtone

[raimundo]

when you say that they give under pressure, and cant push the pins up, you reveal the problem. they are perfectly capable of pushing the pins up against the pressure of the springs in the lock until you put a heavy binding force on the lock.

Your style of picking is using both the pick and tensor as prybars,

To make bogotas work you need to change your style.

light intermittent pulsed tension and light quick rattling of the rake in and out and rocking it.

These tools were never intended to force things, if you bent the pick you were forcing it.

you can also use the half diamond in the same way or by spp, if you ever learn to stop forcing it and feel the feedback while picking.

there are many videos on youtube that you can see if you spell bogota right.

[Schuyler]

Always my first tool in the lock.

[raimundo]

Dont try to bind pins up with the rake, try to keep them in the air like a juggler, then pulse the tensor lightly.

[FarmerFreak]

I've never been a fan of the bogota, or any rake for that matter. I understand that they have the potential to pick a lock faster than a hook. The biggest problem I have with the bogota is that they lack the ability to consistantly pick locks open. That said, I don't use them so my opinion is a biased one.

I meant to mention, the locks that I could not pick before, I still can't pick with these. Namely low/high bittings of Kwikset and Schlage, bittings like 61616, locks' i've intentionally pinned to be difficult. Couldent do it before, and can't now.. was hoping maybe these would do the trick.

I recommend getting yourself a Peterson slender (gov. steel) hook and Gem. The Gem is a really good pick to have for those difficult combinations.

[SALocksmith]

Thanks for your helpful replies. I've seen the video's on youtube, the one with the tatooed fellow was especially good. I have not really tried pulsed tension, I do this when using a pick gun and it works, but never seemed to be a good idea with a rake. Im only an amateur picker, probably always will be. It's not a passion, just part of my Job, which is a passion as a whole. I don't sit around on my day's off and pick locks for 8 hours though. I might practice a couple hours a week. Perhaps that is my problem, it's not a sport for me, it's a profession. And really im here to make money, so if I can't pick something in 5 minutes it's going to get drilled. Not here to impress you, just get the door open and repaired and move on to the next service call.

[Squelchtone]

Not here to impress you, just get the door open and repaired and move on to the next service call.

Perfectly respectable answer. Time is money, and work orders and phone calls from customers usually all come at the same time, so you can't hang out at a customer's picking a door for 30 minutes.

At least you're here and keep an open mind about our hobby. I had a counter guy at my local locksmith shop not even bat an eye when I pulled out a S&G 831 military padlock. He just said, meh.. sorry man, this is just my job, I don't really care about locks, it doesn't get him off like some of us.

Squelchtone

[SALocksmith]

Well, I certainly don't fall into that category, I am passionate about my work. But lock-picking is really only 5% of the job. I'd have jumped at the chance to check that S&G out, don't see to many of those heh.

[pin_pusher]

i have been proven wrong...however, the story does quite often seem the same: too much pressure, too hard of picking. my intention wasn't to insult the picks themselves, or the pickmaker, rather to encourage people to make their own products that fit them ergonomically. i'll sit on the sidelines for a moment.

do you not realize that originally they WERE ONLY MADE BY HAND by forum member Raimundo

[SALocksmith]

Today i was bored in the shop, so i got out my dremel tool and made some "Cut-Away" locks, used some old Key in Knob (KIK) cylenders for schlage and kwikset. Went though a couple cylenders before I got it perfect, but the end result was quite effective. Not quite as pretty as the 40$ practice locks, but at 4$ each I don't mind. Anyways, what an eye-opener, man, I should have done this ages ago, i can see exactly what the hell is going on, so I can finally see what it is that im feeling with the pick and put them together. I have a new respect for this Bogota, I was to quick to judge..

[SALocksmith]

here's some pic's of the cut-aways' i made. The first two where not to pretty, but these turned out well, just a dremel tool with a cut-off blade, and a vice. there's also a pic of the rest of my kit, i carry with me everyday. I used 6 pin locks too, so i can make it harder later if I wanted to. It's easier to link to the image shack slide show, they are high res.

http://img207.imageshack.us/g/dscf1477b.jpg/

[raimundo]

As the narrow peak of the bogota moves, one pin will climb up the slope while another pin rides down the opposite slope. and at some point a pin will be in the valley while the pin next to it is on top of the narrow peak.

With a two pin column lock this will normally find a sweet spot where each column is at the shearline, of course if both pins are high or both low, this sweet spot is more difficult to satisfy but it is possible because of the agility of well rounded tools in a keyway that is larger than the pick so that if both pins are cut high, the shear will be reached with both pins high on the opposite slopes and the pick shaft angled upward to gain height.

When Using the three peak bogota its similiar to picking three of these two pin column locks at the same time.

By disassembling a lock and leaving the bottom pins in the plug, you can manipulate those bottom pins with a three peak bogota and easily see the sweet spots on three or more pins at the shear line simultaneously.

Of course to make all this open a lock, you have to use light tension and quick juggling of the pins.

Certain newbies say that these picks do not work on spool pins, but those who know what they are using realize that they will work very well and quickly on spool pins also,

Of course this is lockpicking and some locks will just be resistant, it always happens. My main explaination for this phenomena is that its the picker who is doing something that gets in the way.

Glad you have come around SAlocksmith.