Trap pins?

[south town ninja]

Has anyone heard of a pin, once you trigger it, it renders the lock unpickable? How , then , does one pick such a lock?

[GWiens2001]

Once you have the lock picked, only turn it a few degrees. Then pack it with dental floss. It frequently works. But if not, you will have something to floss with while you gnash your teeth.

Some locks are set up with trap pins which render the lock unusable permanently, some can be turned back, and some allow a special key to release the cylinder. Others can be released, but only if you have access to either the back of side of the lock.

Trap pins are intended to alert people that an unauthorized entry has been attempted. They are used where the inconvenience of not being able to access whatever the lock is securing is outweighed by the risks of loss of whatever is being secured.

Gordon

[MrAnybody]

Here's a typical configuration of trap pins on a 6 pin cylinder I've got here. A row of 4 trap pins either side of the regular pin stacks.

[south town ninja]

So how could one identify them before they "trap?" how do i know they are there, or must I pack each unfamiliar lock I pick with dental floss, just to be sure?

[GWiens2001]

Do some homework if it is a decent lock. That is the only way I know.

MrAnybody - what kind of lock is that? Have not seen one with four trap pins before. Cool stuff!

Gordon

[MrAnybody]

Do some homework if it is a decent lock. That is the only way I know.

MrAnybody - what kind of lock is that? Have not seen one with four trap pins before. Cool stuff!

Gordon

Made by a company called SecuriStyle. I believe they only sell on the UK market, but I could be wrong there. TS007 British Standard Kitemarked on the cylinder, but their logo is on the key.



Nope. Not picked it yet

[nick08037]

that is a very interesting concept and design!

question, it appears that the trap pins line up with the key pins and would engage if a key was not holding the pins to the shear line, if you know what to expect could you not just pick those 4 pins once they engaged? also someone else here noted packing the key way - especially if multiple rotations are needed to disengage the bolt, but the pins are so close to the center axis that it might be difficult to stop before rotating the plug on the first pick, but at least you could do so after the second pick

MrAnybody - have you dissembled the cylinder yet? do you know if there are any exploded view drawing available?

Nick

[MrAnybody]

I'm away from home at the moment, so I don't have that cylinder with me, I'm afraid.

Have a look a this link, you'll find a good explanation of the mechanics of trap pins and a diagram: http://www.theamazingking.com/lock-mech.php

Gordon's already mentioned the common method of packing the keyway to overcome them. Floss, cling film or anything else that will pack the keyway, and prevent the key pins moving and the trap pins being pushed into the plug as it rotates.

There are a few lock manufacturers doing them. One well known one in the UK is the Mila Evo (not my image):



I'd be happy to gut both the SecuriStyle cylinder and a Mila Evo when I get to them next week.

[Valdo]

Gordon's already mentioned the common method of packing the keyway to overcome them. Floss, cling film or anything else that will pack the keyway, and prevent the key pins moving and the trap pins being pushed into the plug as it rotates.

I've looked at the diagram on the website you linked, if trap pins function a bit like regular pins, can't we use a plug spinner to overcome them? or are the loaded with a more powerfull spring?

[mhole]

Trap pins are usually smaller in diameter than the regular bottom pins, and aggressively spooled. This makes it very easy for them to slip into the plug, but fiendishly difficult to pick. You typically get a feeling like a *huge* false set when trap pins are engaged.

[deolslyfox]

Here's a video showing the "technology" ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... hB6df5eOLA

If I was that worried about security, I'd stick with MEDECO or Primus ....

JMHO

[deralian]

Thanks for the video. I would say the lock is still pick-able since you could get the master pins to the shear line and open the lock. But once you pick it wrong and turn it too far, you are a little stuck. I'm sure there is a way to reset it, otherwise it would be an expensive replacement lock if someone picked it and you had to but a new one.

[Berget]

EVVA DPS (and it siblings) have various types of trap pins. The early ones uses the third top pin as a trap pin. It fires if the plug is turned but the correct sidebar is not presented (ie picked lock). However the sidebar itself is only a passive profile sidebar, and since every lock have the same plug och housing, the location of the trap pin is always the same. So anyone proficient in picking a EVVA DPI would know the location and counter the trap pin threat.

ASSA has a special variant of the 700-series cylinder, equipped with trap pins.

These are however very rare and seldom seen.

Thanks for the video. I would say the lock is still pick-able since you could get the master pins to the shear line and open the lock. But once you pick it wrong and turn it too far, you are a little stuck. I'm sure there is a way to reset it, otherwise it would be an expensive replacement lock if someone picked it and you had to but a new one.

The whole idea is that if you get 'picked', or have a successful attempt made at your lock (it must be successful for the trap to spring. Paper clip poking wont trigger it), you would want to know about it. Because the value of said information is worth a lot more than a mere lock lock cylinder. Even a high quality cylinder would not cost more than say 400$. But the information that you have an adversary capable of some 'high' level of lock picking, and this adversary is directly and actively targeting you... that information is priceless. You're probably gonna be replacing pretty much every cylinder and umph up the security several steps.

[dll932]

Here's a video showing the "technology" ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... hB6df5eOLA

If I was that worried about security, I'd stick with MEDECO or Primus ....

JMHO

Good point about it being bump resistant.

[UnlockingBoredom]

Couldnt you pick it to just turn and then use a plug spinner to get it past the dead pins? That sure is an interesting lock...