Can you pin locks so bumping doesn't work?

[zeke79]

DB's idea certainly has merit the more I mess with it. I think the deciding factor are the tolerances and the picking order of the lock. Obviously if you have a driver pin in an empty chamber that would pick first in the direction you are turning you will have a chance of it not blocking shear line when you bump.

In terms of making a lock more bump resistant, there are some new top pin designs that one will see in the future that in my testing have been very successful. These pins could be installed in any pin tumbler cylinder from kwikset to even the most sophisticated pin tumbler locks. There are just alot of factors in a lock that play into bumping so there will likely never be a 100% fix for existing low-mid security locks. There will however be ways of making them much more secure for only a bit more cost.

[JoeLansing]

Would varying the strength of the springs help alter things? Very weak springs interspaced with strong ones? It seems that would alter the mix a lot more than different weight pins.

Another idea, but requires a new design would be to make the cylinder able to move back slightly under hard pressure. Then have the pins pass through a fixed plate. Under bumping force the cylinder would slide back slightly on the plate binding the pins. That's an ugly idea. But it might work. - Joe

[globallockytoo]

Would varying the strength of the springs help alter things? Very weak springs interspaced with strong ones? It seems that would alter the mix a lot more than different weight pins.

Another idea, but requires a new design would be to make the cylinder able to move back slightly under hard pressure. Then have the pins pass through a fixed plate. Under bumping force the cylinder would slide back slightly on the plate binding the pins. That's an ugly idea. But it might work. - Joe

I like your thinking but unfortunately the cost of tooling up for production of these techniques might make the end user cost unbearable.

Stronger tension springs is definitely an idea that might work and not be an obtrusive cost, however it does not completely solve the problem.

Comically, it might be better to produce keyblanks that would break more easily so that when hit with an object or hammer....they would just break off

[Romstar]

Comically, it might be better to produce keyblanks that would break more easily so that when hit with an object or hammer....they would just break off

Well, that screws the consumer and a few other people, but locksmiths, and serious hobbiests and crooks would still be able to get blanks that didn't have this intentional flaw and still be able to make working bump keys.

So, what you have is a situation that creates jobs for locksmiths. He or she comes out, fishes out your busted key, uses a real bump key to get in, and then cuts you another crappy key based on a flawed blank.

Oh, it sounds like value add to me boys and girls.

Romstar

[JoeLansing]

I don't think the alternating Stiff/Weak spring would be a bad idea. I like your idea of weak blanks though. They should use the cheezy tin/lead stuff that junk belt buckles are made of. The name of it escapes me. I'm really new. Don't know anything, so maybe I'll have really fresh and dumb ideas..

Got a KwikSet yesterday, pinned it to 2 pins tonight. Bought a $8 Yale on sale at Menards tonight. My 14 pc So Ord pick set should be here tomorrow. I got a 9 pc Depth Key set in the mail from Ebay today, but I don't want to "fix" them till I get them copied. I'm a new POS, but getting ready to learn a little I hope? So far I can only pick my nose when sober... - Joe

[JoeLansing]

Pewter, that's the name, make keys of pewter and if you hit one with anything it will crumple, then again, just the heat of grinding one into a blank might melt it. I had a busted belt buckle onec. Try tried to weld it to fix it. He touched the rod on it and it turned into a puddle. Oppos! hahaha - Joe

[JoeLansing]

Where's the Edit button, my last post was horrid... - Joe

[Bud Wiser]

Where's the Edit button, my last post was horrid... - Joe

WHAT'S A EDIT BOTTON

[JoeLansing]

How about very hard pins. Set like a master'd lock. That's 2 drivers right? But cut them so they meet at an angle like / or such. Give them enough roughness on the ends so a key will let them just go straight up, but if you drive them up hard they slide along the / and just slip sideways and bind? - Joe

[JoeLansing]

Everyone sure got quiet after I mentioned alternating soft/stiff springs. I'm thinking that's the answer to the problem.. - Joe

[illusion]

It is not the soltuion.

I think the reason nobody replied to your post, was because it caused such an amount of laughter that they were unable to post due to muscular convulsions.

[Bud Wiser]

harsh illusion, funny, but harsh

[JoeLansing]

So why wouldn't it work? You could even goof with putting the shorter/lighter pins on the heavy springs? I'm thinking it would make locks at least 10 times harder to bump. It wouldn't help as much on mastered locks, but on standard locks I think it would be a winner. - Joe

[illusion]

Meh, try it. I say it can't be done, for reasons that are pretty obvious.

Bud Weiser: I don't think it was harsh.

[Romstar]

Bumping works via the transfer of kinetic energy. Oddly enough, it tends to work better the more accurately the locks is made. This means that it is theoretically more difficult to bump a Weiser KiK than it is to bump a Schlage deadbolt.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. While alternating the sprins is a partial solution to the issue, it by no means nutralizes bumping.

The only way to stop this attack is to create a system that absorbs or displaces the kinetic energy rather than transfering it to the driver pins.

My suggestion was for a pin-in-cup driver. The slop inherant in such a driver pin effectively misdirects the kinetic energy, and makes bumping not just more difficult, but possibly even ineffective.

This type of driver pin had been used previously as an effective measure against picking and pick guns. While never 100% effective against hand picking, I believe the mechanics sound, and the application reasonably effective against bumping.

Romstar