Angle of cuts on a bumpkey

[maxxed]

While cutting a key by code I noticed that many of the cutters I have use a differnet angle or slope on the side. My question is has anyone tried differnt angles on bumpkeys as a way to improve effectivness.

[Olcaytug]

I find cutting with a sharp side of a rectangular file best. Use nothing else and it will be far more smooth!

Since its valleys will be pointed, there will be no chance of any pin not resting on steep sides.

wider valleys increase this possibility, I assume

regards

[maxxed]

I realize many people hand file bumpkeys, my thought had more to do with those who would cut these keys on a code machine. Different cutters have a different slope or angle on the side of the cut. If the slope on the key matches the bevel on the bottom pin, that may be the most efficient transfer of kinetic energy. I was curious if anyone had experimented with using angles that are greater than or less than that which matches the bevel. It is possible that an angle that lifts the pin may be more desirable than one that matches the angle.

[p1ckf1sh]

If the slope on the key matches the bevel on the bottom pin, that may be the most efficient transfer of kinetic energy. I was curious if anyone had experimented with using angles that are greater than or less than that which matches the bevel. It is possible that an angle that lifts the pin may be more desirable than one that matches the angle.

I actually think you are right with your last statement. My first self-made keys were angled and I had mediocre success. Mightbe because I found it hard to file them, if using a square file that is not perfectly square you quickly get a distorted cut. Same with rectangular files, I found it hard to give the same pressure to both of the cutting sides. It all came out distorted. I ended up making rounded valleys, so the pins don't rest in an anglar valley, but more like in a skater half-pipe. I had best results with these keys, they were easier to make and with this design the pin gets the kinetic energy almost exactly on the tip. Plus, they were easier to file, because the round file has equal amounts of contact to both sides of the material.

If I had machined bump keys I would still round the valleys, I have noticed quite some bump keys that were made like this. The ones I finally bought for reference are like this as well. One of them (for Abus) works so well that I don't even need my tomahawk or some makeshift hammer - tapping with my Zippo lighter is enough.

[maxxed]

Thanks for the response. I was wondering about a radius cut bumpkey for a radius machined pin, but never really thought of it on a beveled pin. I do have 2 different radius cutters, I'll try using them to cut another bumpkey and compare to the bevel cut ones .

[maxxed]

I cut 3 bumpkeys for each of the 5 different cutters that I have, 2 radius cut, 3angle cut each with a different angle, or slope. All the keys were for a 6 pin Schlage cut to the equivelent of a 11,11,11 key. The shoulder stopped the key so that a 9 pin in the chamber stopped .010 below the shear line. I tested each of the different profiles in a random sample of 5 cylinders that were keyed different. I observed the following:

The radius cut keys were more forgiving than the angle cut keys

The radius cut keys did not wear as much as any of the angle cut keys

The keys cut with a cutter that more closely matched the bevel of the pin did work better

Steep angle cuts damaged the pins and keys easier than the lower angle

The radius keys never stuck even after pins were damaged by an angle cut key.

I am convinced that a radius profile on a bump key is better
THANKS pickfish for bringing this to my attention

[p1ckf1sh]

I cut 3 bumpkeys for each of the 5 different cutters that I have, 2 radius cut, 3angle cut each with a different angle, or slope. All the keys were for a 6 pin Schlage cut to the equivelent of a 11,11,11 key. The shoulder stopped the key so that a 9 pin in the chamber stopped .010 below the shear line.

, I wish I had your ressources regarding machinery and measuring tools. I'd freaking go insane trying out a lot of the stuff I have in mind regarding lock, mostly tools.

I tested each of the different profiles in a random sample of 5 cylinders that were keyed different. I observed the following:
[...]
I am convinced that a radius profile on a bump key is better
THANKS pickfish for bringing this to my attention

No problem. It is a good feeling for a newb like to have given out something that was helpful to someone, having collected so many interesting thoughts and lots of of great information from this place. In such a forum, for a newb it is often quite a long way to be able to give something back. Glad it happened so quick. Should be good karma for me when I apply to the adv. forums and locksportarchives.

On a side note, I don't understand why so many people still stick with angular valleys. Even in the tool video Barry made cuts like these. Sure, he was in a hurry, and he knew that with a har enough whach the key would sooner or later self-align, bur round is better if you try to visualize the bump-key action. Imagine a single pin, t make the angular key work, there has to be an almost exact match of angle, being off just a few degrees will give much more of a sideways accelaration, and actually slam the pinder into the chanber walls instead of down. With a bevelled cut there is much more area of contact, therefore much more binding force that needs to be overcome to make the pin convert the received energy into downward motion etc.

Enough rambling. Glad it works for you.

[maxxed]

"I don't understand why so many people still stick with angular valleys."


The main reason is availability, suppliers don't stock the cutters and the code machines don't come with radius cutters.
The second deals with the fact that most of the duplicating machines ( in North America ) use a angled cutter. This may cause the duplicated key to have a bottom radius on one side, angled on the other.

Those who wish to hand file a radius bump key use a pippin file or a small chainsaw file on the bottom of the cut and slope the side with a flat file

[Chrispy]

I love our Instacode. Bumpkeys galore.

[skold]

mmmm... fresh HPC code-cut bumpkeys.

[maxxed]

So there are people with code machines here. What variations of a 999 key have you experemented with?

[Mutzy]

I talked about this *here*

[Darkhigh412]

I never thought of that

[jeffmoss26]

new record, bumped a 14 year old thread...

[GWiens2001]

new record, bumped a 14 year old thread...

Bumping a bumping thread after 14 years.

Gordon