How To Remove Old Entry Lock?

[billdeserthills]

I understand your concerns with glass & the whole 'fire safety' thing. It is frustrating because in Arizona there is always a lot of glass on homes & many convenient rocks laying within reach just outside...

I have Medeco double deadbolts mounted on all my doors but it would only take one throw of a rock to get past thousands of dollars worth of security hardware & into my house. Fortunately I have many heavy-duty safes inside to keep my valuables in

My understanding is that Medeco are very good locks. I recall my father installing a Medco cylinder on out apartment door lock back in the 1970's. We lived in an apartment house in the Bronx and had a Fox Police Lock as well as a rim lock, in addition to the old mortise lock.

By "double deadbolts" do you mean they require a key on both sides?

Anyway, I'd like to refurbish and recommission my original Sargent locks, and maybe even eliminate the modern deadbolts. But I will need more info on the springs, and a couple of new lock cylinders. I might also install a steel door jamb. (But probably not.)

jv

Yep, double-sided deadbolts


https://www.edlocks.com/medeco-11tc621- ... om=adwords


Good luck with your Sargent flat spring finding mission. Far as I know you'll hafta find flat spring steel & bend it to fit--Not something I would do as a job for my business, those spring steel pieces looked pretty wide-- I highly doubt I have anything that wide in my flat spring steel collection

[jviss]

Good luck with your Sargent flat spring finding mission. Far as I know you'll hafta find flat spring steel & bend it to fit--Not something I would do as a job for my business, those spring steel pieces looked pretty wide-- I highly doubt I have anything that wide in my flat spring steel collection

Thanks. I wonder if you can help me, though. I've been unable to put my hands on any of the flat spring stock I need. I have so far found four of the 20+ locks in my house have broken springs. One's a lever spring, 'though that rim lock still works, of sorts, due to gravity. Another is a bathroom lock that I'm afraid may trap me some day (so I always bring my phone when I use it, and keep some tools in there). The other two are the two mortice entry locks, the ones I've talked about here.

On the mortice locks the springs are 0.180" wide by 0.035" thick. I recon I would need a foot or so, maybe a bit more, for my needs. If you have this are are willing to sell me some I will be thrilled! I have tools and torches of various kinds, and some metalworking knowledge and experience, 'though I've never made springs.

[jviss]

Some strangeness:

I have two of these mortice entry locks, and considering repairing them and putting them back into commission, I was thinking about new lock cylinders, and what kind I want, what make and keyway, etc. So, measuring them I found they are different! One is 1 1/4" and the other 1 1/8". Both doors are 1 3/4", and are morticed identically, so there must be enough tolerance inside the lock case to tolerate both. Any thoughts?

p.s what's a good lock cylinder that can be readily keyed alike with others?

[Squelchtone]

Good luck with your Sargent flat spring finding mission. Far as I know you'll hafta find flat spring steel & bend it to fit--Not something I would do as a job for my business, those spring steel pieces looked pretty wide-- I highly doubt I have anything that wide in my flat spring steel collection

Thanks. I wonder if you can help me, though. I've been unable to put my hands on any of the flat spring stock I need. I have so far found four of the 20+ locks in my house have broken springs. One's a lever spring, 'though that rim lock still works, of sorts, due to gravity. Another is a bathroom lock that I'm afraid may trap me some day (so I always bring my phone when I use it, and keep some tools in there). The other two are the two mortice entry locks, the ones I've talked about here.

On the mortice locks the springs are 0.180" wide by 0.035" thick. I recon I would need a foot or so, maybe a bit more, for my needs. If you have this are are willing to sell me some I will be thrilled! I have tools and torches of various kinds, and some metalworking knowledge and experience, 'though I've never made springs.

try this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174636795586

and this seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/304503480401?

[GWiens2001]

Some strangeness:

I have two of these mortice entry locks, and considering repairing them and putting them back into commission, I was thinking about new lock cylinders, and what kind I want, what make and keyway, etc. So, measuring them I found they are different! One is 1 1/4" and the other 1 1/8". Both doors are 1 3/4", and are morticed identically, so there must be enough tolerance inside the lock case to tolerate both. Any thoughts?

p.s what's a good lock cylinder that can be readily keyed alike with others?

LSDA makes a decent mortise lock cylinder in KW1, which is what you say you are trying to get so they match the other locks on the house. Available in a variety of finishes.

As for cylinder length, if both are fitting properly, they may have different mortise lock housings. Common mortise lock cylinder lengths are 1", 1 1/8" and 1 1/4". I would order them to fit the lock you are replacing, so one 1 1/8" and one 1 1/4" cylinder.

Gordon

[jviss]

Some strangeness:

I have two of these mortice entry locks, and considering repairing them and putting them back into commission, I was thinking about new lock cylinders, and what kind I want, what make and keyway, etc. So, measuring them I found they are different! One is 1 1/4" and the other 1 1/8". Both doors are 1 3/4", and are morticed identically, so there must be enough tolerance inside the lock case to tolerate both. Any thoughts?

p.s what's a good lock cylinder that can be readily keyed alike with others?

LSDA makes a decent mortise lock cylinder in KW1, which is what you say you are trying to get so they match the other locks on the house. Available in a variety of finishes.

As for cylinder length, if both are fitting properly, they may have different mortise lock housings. Common mortise lock cylinder lengths are 1", 1 1/8" and 1 1/4". I would order them to fit the lock you are replacing, so one 1 1/8" and one 1 1/4" cylinder.

Gordon

Thanks, Gordon - yes, but!!! they are identical locks in identical installations! I imagine the lock case design just tolerates either 1 1/8" or 1 1/4". But what do I know?

I guess I could make a wood piece 1/2" thick and install each of the cylinders I have, and see if the cam hits in a workable part of the lock?

[jviss]

try this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174636795586

and this seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/304503480401?

Thank you! Not exactly the size I need, but I can leverage off this search hit.

jv

[Squelchtone]

try this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174636795586

and this seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/304503480401?

Thank you! Not exactly the size I need, but I can leverage off this search hit.

jv

or contact those sellers to see if they have the stock you need.

[GWiens2001]

Thanks, Gordon - yes, but!!! they are identical locks in identical installations! I imagine the lock case design just tolerates either 1 1/8" or 1 1/4". But what do I know?

I guess I could make a wood piece 1/2" thick and install each of the cylinders I have, and see if the cam hits in a workable part of the lock?

If those sizes are working in their existing doors/hardware, then why not replace with the same sizes in each lock?

True, a locksmith may not have had enough of one size and substituted a different size. But maybe not.

Gordon

[billdeserthills]

Some strangeness:

I have two of these mortice entry locks, and considering repairing them and putting them back into commission, I was thinking about new lock cylinders, and what kind I want, what make and keyway, etc. So, measuring them I found they are different! One is 1 1/4" and the other 1 1/8". Both doors are 1 3/4", and are morticed identically, so there must be enough tolerance inside the lock case to tolerate both. Any thoughts?

p.s what's a good lock cylinder that can be readily keyed alike with others?

LSDA makes a decent mortise lock cylinder in KW1, which is what you say you are trying to get so they match the other locks on the house. Available in a variety of finishes.

As for cylinder length, if both are fitting properly, they may have different mortise lock housings. Common mortise lock cylinder lengths are 1", 1 1/8" and 1 1/4". I would order them to fit the lock you are replacing, so one 1 1/8" and one 1 1/4" cylinder.

Gordon

Thanks, Gordon - yes, but!!! they are identical locks in identical installations! I imagine the lock case design just tolerates either 1 1/8" or 1 1/4". But what do I know?

I guess I could make a wood piece 1/2" thick and install each of the cylinders I have, and see if the cam hits in a workable part of the lock?

Usually if you can get 3 turns on a mortise cylinder, into your lock case, it will work fine. Most if not all locksmiths have an assortment of mortise cylinder rings to make a too-long cylinder fit well

https://www.lockpicks.com/catalog/produ ... er-by-gms/

[jviss]

Thanks, Gordon - yes, but!!! they are identical locks in identical installations! I imagine the lock case design just tolerates either 1 1/8" or 1 1/4". But what do I know?

I guess I could make a wood piece 1/2" thick and install each of the cylinders I have, and see if the cam hits in a workable part of the lock?

If those sizes are working in their existing doors/hardware, then why not replace with the same sizes in each lock?

True, a locksmith may not have had enough of one size and substituted a different size. But maybe not.

Gordon

Because I prefer to buy two the same, and keyed alike.

[jviss]

Usually if you can get 3 turns on a mortise cylinder, into your lock case, it will work fine. Most if not all locksmiths have an assortment of mortise cylinder rings to make a too-long cylinder fit well

https://www.lockpicks.com/catalog/produ ... er-by-gms/

Thanks, Gordon, good to know. I will try to determine the range over which the Yale cam will work in the lock, and then, based on the door thickness, calculate the range of cylinder sizes that will work. But, I think it's safe to assume that both 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" will work.

I have the original, spring-loaded bronze bezels. I'm trying to figure out how to clean them up, of old paint, etc., while maintaining the century of patina they've developed.

[billdeserthills]

Usually if you can get 3 turns on a mortise cylinder, into your lock case, it will work fine. Most if not all locksmiths have an assortment of mortise cylinder rings to make a too-long cylinder fit well

https://www.lockpicks.com/catalog/produ ... er-by-gms/

Thanks, Gordon, good to know. I will try to determine the range over which the Yale cam will work in the lock, and then, based on the door thickness, calculate the range of cylinder sizes that will work. But, I think it's safe to assume that both 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" will work.

I have the original, spring-loaded bronze bezels. I'm trying to figure out how to clean them up, of old paint, etc., while maintaining the century of patina they've developed.

Alcohol soak should soften old paint, I doubt alcohol will remove patina but I'm sure someone on here knows for sure

[GWiens2001]

Alcohol soak should soften old paint, I doubt alcohol will remove patina but I'm sure someone on here knows for sure

Yet another thing I learn from you, Bill!

Gordon

[demux]

But, I think it's safe to assume that both 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" will work.

The safest option is to order one 1-1/8" cylinder and one 1-1/4" cylinder to replace like for like, then just rekey them as you desire. The length makes no difference in keying options (assuming of course they are the same number of pin chambers each) - most of the back part of a typical mortise cylinder is just the threads to screw it into the lockset.

If you are dead set on ordering two that are identical, before doing so I'd swap your existing cylinders and make sure you can still operate both locks - e.g. put the 1-1/8" cylinder into the lock the 1-1/4" came out of and vice versa. Just make sure you do so in a way that you don't lock yourself out if they both fail.