How do I get in my house?

[csutak40]

You’ll have to forgive me, if I am posting this in the wrong section. I’ve accidentally found this Forum and hope that you can help
I bought this house four years ago, it is near the beach, in Melbourne. I did get a locksmith out, to change/add some locks and have them all keyed alike.
I then decided to buy a security door for the front door. I asked if I could have that key keyed alike to match my other keys. They said they could give me the lock and I could take it to a locksmith and get them to change it.
I went to a couple of locksmiths, they both told me it can’t be done, as the key for the security door was shorter than the others. I wasn’t happy, but accepted that. So now I have (what I was trying to avoid) two front door keys. A friend (not a locksmith) told me that it could have been fixed so that a different sized key could fit (by adding something to the inside part of the door, or something), but it was too late by then.
However, as it turned out, that was the least of my problems.
I discovered that I had trouble opening the door from the outside. At first it was difficult, then impossible. I asked neighbours to come and see if they could open it – no one could. Luckily, I have a garage door with an internal entry, so I can come in the house through the garage, (and, as most of the time I am in the car, that would be the way I’d come in most often) but it is still not exactly ideal.
So, I called the people who supplied the door, they came out, fiddled with it, and it worked... for a few weeks. I have called them back several times, each time they seem to fix it, but it stops working again. I have tried putting graphite in it, (it has been suggested that being near the beach may be a problem) again it works for a few days.
As I am no spring chicken and could have a medical emergency, I really need this fixed permanently. I can’t even give a neighbour a key, as they couldn’t use it, if there was an emergency. I can’t give everyone a remote for the garage! As I had a few experiences of locking myself out in my life, I have even purchased a keysafe for outside as soon as I moved in, I have my keys in it, but of course, if I was locked out, it wouldn’t be of any use. Not big enough to fit a remote into
I stopped calling the door people, they are not locksmiths and obviously don’t know how to fix it, besides it is now way out of warranty.
People tell me to call a “good” locksmith. How do I know how to find one of those?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Robotnik]

Pictures - or at least brand names/model numbers - would help immensely. Depending on the hardware and the configuration thereof, any number of distinct issues could be at fault.

Whatever the case, sounds like some hardware that needs replacement. Personally, while I can fix and have fixed all manner of door hardware, I hesitate to put something that's caused that many issues back into service unless I'm dead sure they're resolved.

[billdeserthills]

One easy way I like to begin diagnosing with is to see how the lock works when the door is open,
that way you can easily see if there is a strike problem, or a hardware issue.

Does your lock function OK with the door open?

[csutak40]

Pictures - or at least brand names/model numbers - would help immensely. Depending on the hardware and the configuration thereof, any number of distinct issues could be at fault.

Whatever the case, sounds like some hardware that needs replacement. Personally, while I can fix and have fixed all manner of door hardware, I hesitate to put something that's caused that many issues back into service unless I'm dead sure they're resolved.

I have now taken some pictures. I will attempt to upload the first of them, to see if it works. The instructions say that the link must end with a jpg extension, but I don't seem to be able to get that I have no idea what I am doing wrong. So, here I go, see if this can be viewed (before posting the rest
I would be willing to replace what ever needed replacing (hopefully not the entire door!) just want to make sure that I don't go throwing good money after bad - that is the person that I get to fix it, does actually know what they are doing

[csutak40]

One easy way I like to begin diagnosing with is to see how the lock works when the door is open,
that way you can easily see if there is a strike problem, or a hardware issue.

Does your lock function OK with the door open?

I just tried - no it doesn't function open, either. I just tried putting graphite in the lock again as well, that didn't help this time, either.

[RumballSolutions]

Check out the Locksmiths Guild of Australia or the Master Locksmiths Association of Australia to find a competent Locksmith. I note VIC has pretty relaxed licensing/registration requirements.

I'm a Guild Member by the way (CPL) but both organisations tend to root out the hacks and handymen, so you'll get someone who actually understands what they are working.

Security doors can be a PITA at the best of times, I would almost bet you have a model with multipoint locking and pressure back through the crappy linkages is making it hard for the lock to operate. That explains intermittent operation and operating for a short period after service.

Check out these sites for info on how to locate an LGA or MLAA member:

http://www.lga.org.au/

http://www.masterlocksmiths.com.au

[csutak40]

Pictures - or at least brand names/model numbers - would help immensely. Depending on the hardware and the configuration thereof, any number of distinct issues could be at fault.

Whatever the case, sounds like some hardware that needs replacement. Personally, while I can fix and have fixed all manner of door hardware, I hesitate to put something that's caused that many issues back into service unless I'm dead sure they're resolved.

OK, I think I've got the uploads figured out, so...
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[csutak40]

Check out the Locksmiths Guild of Australia or the Master Locksmiths Association of Australia to find a competent Locksmith. I note VIC has pretty relaxed licensing/registration requirements.

I'm a Guild Member by the way (CPL) but both organisations tend to root out the hacks and handymen, so you'll get someone who actually understands what they are working.

Security doors can be a PITA at the best of times, I would almost bet you have a model with multipoint locking and pressure back through the crappy linkages is making it hard for the lock to operate. That explains intermittent operation and operating for a short period after service.

Check out these sites for info on how to locate an LGA or MLAA member:

http://www.lga.org.au/

http://www.masterlocksmiths.com.au

Thank you for that. Yes, the lock is a multipoint one The reason I am worried about picking a locksmith from a list is because the last time I called one (when I moved in) a very young guy came out - he was probably the apprentice. He had to call the boss to the get answers to some of my questions. So, if I find a registered locksmith on the list, how do I ensure that the actual person they send out is also registered?
What state are you in, BTW?

[RumballSolutions]

There is nothing stopping you from having that wafer lazy cam cylinder swapped for a pin tumbler lazy cam euro cylinder keyed the same as your other locks. I'm quite sure that the locksmith who's details are stamped on the head of your front door key will happily assist.

That is a bog standard Lockwood/Whitco security door lock. They are not worth repairing if there is an internal problem with the lock itself. Filling it with graphite probably won't help as they are usually factory greased. Hence the lock casing inside the door will be pinned instead of being screwed on, they were never designed for service. Check out the replacement locks on the shelf at Bunnings and you'll see exactly what I mean.

A real locksmith will have absolutely no issues with fixing your issue. They will however cost more than a handyman or key cutter. If you are handy or super thrifty, then buy a replacement lock at Bunnings and follow the instructions religiously. I suspect that you will come to a screaming halt as I said before, this probably has to do with a multipoint set up as many of these issues are.

If you use a guild or MLAA locky you are pretty safe. If you are unsatisfied with the work and they won't rectify it, then contact the guild or MLAA head office and lodge a complaint. It is rare occurrence and the pressure is on to protect the reputation of the organisation. That's the beauty of the system.

[csutak40]

There is nothing stopping you from having that wafer lazy cam cylinder swapped for a pin tumbler lazy cam euro cylinder keyed the same as your other locks. I'm quite sure that the locksmith who's details are stamped on the head of your front door key will happily assist.

That is a bog standard Lockwood/Whitco security door lock. They are not worth repairing if there is an internal problem with the lock itself. Filling it with graphite probably won't help as they are usually factory greased. Hence the lock casing inside the door will be pinned instead of being screwed on, they were never designed for service. Check out the replacement locks on the shelf at Bunnings and you'll see exactly what I mean.

A real locksmith will have absolutely no issues with fixing your issue. They will however cost more than a handyman or key cutter. If you are handy or super thrifty, then buy a replacement lock at Bunnings and follow the instructions religiously. I suspect that you will come to a screaming halt as I said before, this probably has to do with a multipoint set up as many of these issues are.

If you use a guild or MLAA locky you are pretty safe. If you are unsatisfied with the work and they won't rectify it, then contact the guild or MLAA head office and lodge a complaint. It is rare occurrence and the pressure is on to protect the reputation of the organisation. That's the beauty of the system.

Seems the locksmith stamped on the key must have been the locksmith that fitted the locks when this house was originally built. They were NOT the ones I had out here to change/add locks when I moved in. My memory ain't what it used to be, so I don't remember the reason why I would have kept the original front door key. You'd think the reason I called a Locksmith was to change that! Anyway, no harm done - the original owner hasn't come back to visit
I must say, I am a bit surprised/disappointed that when I went to see two separate locksmiths (yes, locksmiths, not key cutters) neither suggested swapping for a pin tumbler lazy cam euro cylinder. They just told me it can't be changed, period.

[Squelchtone]

I'm wondering if they say it cannot be changed becuase the whitco cylinder is shorter and they dont make pin tumbler cylinders that short in euro profile format?

just a thought.
Squelchtone

[RumballSolutions]

I'm wondering if they say it cannot be changed becuase the whitco cylinder is shorter and they dont make pin tumbler cylinders that short in euro profile format?

just a thought.
Squelchtone

There's a 5 pin Whitco replacement that slots straight in. Several other also manufacture them for the Australian market, they are unusual in that the cam is lazy (ie moves independently) rather than in the style of a traditional euro. The pin tumbler cylinders project out slightly further each side of the lock handles. They can also be fitted with restricted plugs if you wish to expand a restricted profile system across to screen doors for keying convenience (common in retirement villages etc)

The stumpy wafer cylinders are traditionally used by door fabricators as they are much cheaper and increase their profit margins. Replacement to allow keying alike with other doors is common.

The only time that replacement of the shorter cylinders really presents a problem is when insufficient clearance exists between the security/screen door and the main door, most commonly on sliding glass doors or front doors with large architectural handles.

Security screen doors are to Australian locksmiths as storm doors are to North American and European locksmiths. We hate them at times, but they are bread and butter.

[globallockytoo]

Rumball is quite right.
Although you could look for an Austral brand tear drop/yoke cylinder that can be keyed alike to your front door key. It is usually a wafer tumbler and still shorter than the pin tumbler extrusion.

Expect to pay about $35 for the cylinder keyed to your key. You can then replace it in the door yourself.

[csutak40]

Rumball is quite right.
Although you could look for an Austral brand tear drop/yoke cylinder that can be keyed alike to your front door key. It is usually a wafer tumbler and still shorter than the pin tumbler extrusion.

Expect to pay about $35 for the cylinder keyed to your key. You can then replace it in the door yourself.

There is no way I would even attempt to do that! I have now called a locksmith. Will report back with the results
Thank you everyone with the advice

[C locked]

you have the tasman mk 3 and if as you say you have the 3 point (multipoint) latches
I bet that the holes in the frame for the latch to strike into that they are not deep enough
Incorrect installation

And the gap between the frane and door it too loose for the deadlatch latch pin(the small latch) doesn't properly hit the strike plate

As this locl will not lock if the deadlatch pin isn't depressed
Allowing the lych to throw out the correct distance

Please post reply of what the problem turned out to be

And thankyou for supporting your local locksmith

It does py to make friends with them before you need them