Unusual safe

[bitbuster]

Got a call today to look at a safe in rural Wisconsin.It was in the owner's workshop shoved against a back wall.It appeared to be a typical big,black,square, unassuming Hall safe. Single door with a 50 numbered dial in the center of the door.Then that's when I noticed something odd.I had never seen a safe like this.The safe had TWO opening handles.I've seen safes with pressure handles but neither handle was a pressure handle.If you were to draw a line from the dial ring TDC and a line from the dial ring BDC straight left to the door's edge and then a line 2" in from door edge vertically,the 2 handles would be where the lines intersect. These were "T" handles with the part of said handle that goes through the "ball" being tapered.(Ref. page 106,Dave McOmies Safe Opening Vol 4, handle only).The handles were vertically 4.5" apart.Long story short, the safe is 45.5" high,32.5"wide,26" deep, approx. 1500 lbs., with no combo.Any knowledge of like safes??

[torontosafecracker]

If it's a Dexter lock, It probably doesn't even use either handle. The dial retracts the bolt work, I don't know about that safe specifically, but they had very complicated bolt works. I don't think it's a Hall, it's a Herring Farrel.

It could go one of these ways, (sorry I don't have a definitive answer)

The one is to retract the bolt work, while the other is used to put pressure on the door, when opening and closing. Testing the play in each handle and using a stethoscope to listen to the bolt work or watch for door movement, may tell you much more than one would think.

The one is to retract the bolt work and the other is a dummy.
Both are dummies (no jokes please..lol)
One keeps the door tight and the other is a dummy handle.

It is very possible that the cam on this lock is 2 halves, like Dave so kindly points out and that the dial retracts the complicated boltwork on this HF safe..


TSC

[bitbuster]

after labor day i got another response from andy at allexperts that he believes the original lock (key operated) had been replaced by the present combo lock somewhere in the life of the safe. andy has a mile-long list of credentials in the safe technician field so i'm leaning toward his assessment. i showed the safe's owner the response from andy and he did not want to pursue the opening of the safe.

[docjon]

Does anyone know of a book about the history of all the different safes? After reading any. Any posts it got me to thinking. Or a history of all the locks on the safes. Docjon

[MacGyver101]

I haven't run across one book that tries to cover everything, but a few that I've found good reads are American Genius, which covers 19th-century time locks (with beautiful photographs), and some of the "papers" that the folks at AntiquesLocks.com publish (which deal with the stories of a number of the great British safe inventors/manufacturers). Archive.org also had some of the publications detailing the story of Chubb, etc..

There's a lot of rich history and stories around safes: each of those shines a light on a corner of that. On that topic, Charles Courtney's autobiography Unlocking Adventure is a great read, if you can find a used copy somewhere (it's long out of print); his life story reads like some sort of crazy fictional adventure tale, involving (legal) safe-cracking escapades that took him across Europe, Russia and further afield (even on sunken ships).

Slightly off-topic from the original thread, but I hope that gives you some interesting pointers.