Antique Diebold Safe May 23 1871 Lock Change Key

[billdeserthills]

Shrub " I think there's different profiles depending on flag orientation any of these look right? "



Yes they all look to be right at least based on them having the diamond-shaped profile however some of them might have too short of a shaft that they wouldn't able to be inserted far enough to the tensioner at the back of the lock's body on a 4-wheel pack. The main problems are knowing if I need a 'flag' on my change key and how long does the shaft of it need to be. I have 3 of these peerless/eagle/161 locks ...2 of them have the 3-wheel pack and the other one has the 4-wheel pack. I looked at all of them, and so far it doesn't seem to matter if the shaft of the change key would be a mile long since it would still insert into either style and be able to slide through far enough to reach all of the corresponding 'cogs'.

Last January I even messaged several web sites that specialize in locksmith's tools, sell these hpc-slc change keys, and their site said to send them a message if needing help. I made certain my email address was correct including to let them know if they need pictures and measurements to just let me know. Most recently I messaged them 1 week ago and still haven't received any reply what-so-ever from last January either. I have even seen others on these lock/safe sites from as far back as 2012 and 2014 who have asked the same questions as I have been and can even see how their posts has hundreds of views but yet years later still none of them have an answer....yes some have replies but no answers

So what's wrong here? Does something seem fishy to anybody else? It might seem dumb to some and some may play it off as just being another one of those conspiracy theorist nuts who has nothing better to put their imagination to, but just think about it.... over 5 years of people having asked about the change keys for these exact same locks yet not even one direct answer, and over 7 months of having messaged several web sites that specialize in locksmith's tools yet still no reply, and even after being willing to send measurements using dial calipers if need be but yet at the most all of us have only been told things like they will get back to us as soon as they have an answer or to contact our local locksmith.

Concerning contacting our local locksmiths...none of them would offer free information other than it being free for them to tell me that they can stop out to my house but will have to charge for making a service call...keeping in mind that I ONLY need to know what change key is needed for the lock...but funny how when I said that I would save them the drive out to my place and the need to charge me for a service call by me bringing the lock to them, they just danced around it and started making excuses. I can EASILY understand that locksmiths need to pay their bills and keep their family feed as well. The frivolous situation comes in since I'm not needing any service done on my safe or lock including not needing them to reset my combination...

...they're the equivalent of an elderly person who just bought a new car needing to know where the hood release latch is located but being told that's not covered by the service agreement and to bring it into their service station so they can be more than willing to help charge them for it.

deleted comment to keep things 'nice'. You forgot to mention just what you think is 'in it'
for a professional safeman with antique safe experience to answer your questions??
Let's say you actually find a real pro, someone
who has long personal experience working on safes from your safe's era. As an expert he is likely thinking
that he is gonna make some $$$ answering your questions, but then Surprise--You don't want to buy
anything from him after all, you just wanna 'pick his brain' & get all the free info you can and then run on over
somewhere else to purchase whatever part or tool he told you to buy. How do you expect this busy 'expert'
to feed himself and his family with your questions??

BTW safe lock change keys are tools, and I don't know any real safemen who sell their tools--What they do sell
is their expertise and knowledge in the form of 'service'--A typical client in your position might call a safeman
out to change or determine the combo on your safe--They don't come out to train you on how to do their job

[7Country-Folk7]

If you can't tell which lock serie you have, just buy the SLC-19 and hope for the best. It's 2 key in one and, worst case scenario, you can carefully use it without the lock cover. Keep in mind that I haven't identified your lock, I'm just making a wild guess based on the chances you have to get the correct key.

But if you actually want to use the safes, consider paying a qualified safe tech to inspect and service the safes. He'll even change the combos for you.

Good luck

I can now tell for certain that this lock is a Diebold Eagle 161 series as the diagrams show in the pictures I uploaded.

...and so since no one seems to have had an answer concerning what change key is needed because the lock hasn't been identified, wew finally it's identified and can find out what change key to use on it

Please Note: the lock in my pictures that I uploaded at the beginning of this post is definitely a 4-wheel lock even though only 3 complete wheels are on it... I took apart the lock last night and after I removed the 4th, 3rd, and 2nd wheels from the pack, I got down to the first wheel and immediately noticed that someone had damaged the 1st wheel where by only the center of the wheel was there and so just being used as a spacer thus is a 4-wheel pack lock turned into a 3-wheel pack (3 number combination now) due to the 1st wheel not being complete but I will still be using a change key that is for this Eagle 161 4-wheel pack.

[7Country-Folk7]

"As a locksmith, I find your protracted rant amusing. You forgot to mention just what you think is 'in it'
for a professional safeman with antique safe experience to answer your questions??
Let's say you actually find a real pro, someone
who has long personal experience working on safes from your safe's era. As an expert he is likely thinking
that he is gonna make some $$$ answering your questions, but then Surprise--You don't want to buy
anything from him after all, you just wanna 'pick his brain' & get all the free info you can and then run on over
somewhere else to purchase whatever part or tool he told you to buy. How do you expect this busy 'expert'
to feed himself and his family with your questions??

BTW safe lock change keys are tools, and I don't know any real safemen who sell their tools--What they do sell
is their expertise and knowledge in the form of 'service'--A typical client in your position might call a safeman
out to change or determine the combo on your safe--They don't come out to train you on how to do their job"

Removed unnecessarily rude comment. Please be courteous in responses. Billdeserthills was giving a realistic view from a working locksmith.

You definitely need to learn to slow down while you read to keep in context what is actually written since no one said or even implied that I have a bunch of questions to ask a local locksmith whereby expecting him to answer them for free... it's completely clear, other than for you, that I have just one question and again never said or implied I wouldn't pay a locksmith to tell me the answer to the one question of what change key is needed...I made it perfectly clear that I wasn't paying the cost of a service call just to know what key is needed especially when they keep making up obvious lies as to why I can't bring my lock to them and they have to stop out my house just to insert a key into the lock until the right one fits.

...also no one said or implied that they expect a locksmith to sell their tools or even stop out to show me how to do their job... I don't need them to sell me their tools or to show me how to use them when I will be buying the change key from a site that sells them and I already know how to change my combination on these old locks but just need to know what the proper key id to do so.

[Squelchtone]

Diebold change key, and there are separate ones for three and four wheel locks.

Gordon

Yes, definitely a Diebold change key for a Diebold lock and so I need to know the specific change key that is used for both of these 3 and 4 wheel locks.

Ok, Im gonna jump in here because I don't think anyone has actually stated the obvious yet. I admit I only skimmed the entire thread but before things get out of hand here let me explain something.

I get it, its a Do It Yourself world these days where you can find out how to fix a lawnmower carb or repair a broken LED tv power supply just by watching a youtube video or visiting a forum but these are all modern devices that have service and parts manuals readily available with a good chance of Sears, Amazon or ebay having the parts as well..

This does not transfer to a safe lock from the 1800's where standardization was helter skelter and manufactuers used one off parts for every new model of safe lock. None of us here have a list of change key model numbers or the knowledge of which exact one may fot your lock because a lot of that info was passed locksmith to locksmith and safeman to safeman and things like catalogs or service manuals simply don't exist for something that old.

A patent drawing may get you a diagram of what the key looked like and then its off to ebay to find one that matches and hope it fits when it arrives in the mail.

I have seen 4 inch rings with 15 change keys on them and for the most part an experienced safeman would know to reach for the 4th key on his ring to change a particular lock but oops on some days he'd be wrong and it would end up being the 5th key on his ring that would fit that safe lock.

Even knowing the exact model lock in your case doesnt equal a full parts list of accesories and the part # of the change key, they pretty much didnt have part numbers for this stuff, it was simply understood that the shape of the hole dictated which wrench fit in there and even if it sounds dumb or inefficient the safe tech of his time just had a bunch of keys that they would try out.

It does sound like perhaps you are calling local locksmiths who are not the best match for your needs but not all locksmiths are safe experts, so calling a real safe technician near you may yield better results but they may also want to stop by as giving safe lock advice over the phone is like calling your mechanic to diagnose an engine noise over the phone.

As to asking on other forums or calling HPC and not getting far, again lock is from 1800's and not really anyones bread and butter so nobody is making or selling antique safe lock change keys that you'll just find on Amazon prime ready for shipping.

If this was my lock, I'd get some used diebold change keys from ebay and see if they worked when they arrived. And I'd also be thinking, hey how hard can this be? It's just a metal shaft with a flag, I can surely handle this. And being the tenatious son of a b*tch that I am, Id end up buying $80 bucks worth of the wrong change keys only to realize just paying a locksmith $120 and knowing he already had all the change keys laying around would have just saved me all this time and effort from the beginning.

Good luck with your project and Im going to lock this thread before any more back and fourth occurs, everyone go in peace and have a good night.

Squelchtone