would love help - Chubb Manifoil Mk4

[wonderous]

hi all this is my first post.
To cut a long story short...
i bourght an ex MOD small safe from ebay with a Manifoil Mk4. I actually purchased a second one at the same time for nearly nothing becasue the guy said he didnt know the combination and couldnt get it to work. now i love a challenge, so i got the second one too With the working safe i also got an original manual and what looks like a cheap modern change key too.

So i have this almost free little safe and using the info on a previous thread https://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=55560 i spent a couple of hours yesterday working out the combination and checking and rechecking etc...
and well i never! i got the lock locking and unlocking great (thank you guys i definitly couldnt have done it without that thread!)

now for the problem... the combination is:
99, 99, 99, 0 (then the final 1/4 turn to open it)
i've love to change the combination to something more useful.
BUT, following the instructons in the manual: i use the straight line to do the first three numbers then stop. then insert the change key and turn 1/4 turn anticlockwise - the change key goes in beautifully and turns fine, but when i start the rest of the sequence, "clockwise spin your first new number five times to end on the new number on the straight mark"... i barely get past one turn clockwise until the whole dial clunks and seems to hit an obstruction.

what is also wierd is the lock is mounted on the safe door with the hinges on the right and the lock moving out to the left (ie A position) and in the manual is says in this configuration DO NOT USE 95-10 FOR YOUR THIRD NUMBER. (it also doesnt say what the forth number should be in "A position" but i've tried 0, 25, 50 and 75 and only 0 seemsto work on this safe.

so i'd love to change the combination but somethings not quite right. I'd love any help you can offer
thanks loads

[femurat]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

The most important suggestion I give you is to make sure the safe door can't be closed. Use a clamp or two and attach a piece of wood on the inside of the door so it's IMPOSSIBLE to lock it accidentally. Now you can change the combination. Remove it only if you've successfully opened the lock four or five times in a row, scrambling the dial well every time.

Based on how your lock is mounted, zero will always be your last combination number. You can't change it.

I no longer have my manifoil iv so I'll let someone else disassemble one and see what's wrong with the lock. My guess is the third number of actual combo, in the forbidden zone, prevents you from completing the procedure. You can fix it by changing the combo with the back cover off, if you know what you're doing. Keep in mind this is a risky operation, because it's easy to damage the lock.

Good luck

[wonderous]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

The most important suggestion I give you is to make sure the safe door can't be closed. Use a clamp or two and attach a piece of wood on the inside of the door so it's IMPOSSIBLE to lock it accidentally. Now you can change the combination. Remove it only if you've successfully opened the lock four or five times in a row, scrambling the dial well every time.

many thanks femurat! i thought that too! i've wedged a whole wad of paper and stuck it in there, there is no way i can even shut the door without significant undoing of selotape - no way i can accidentally close it now

I no longer have my manifoil iv so I'll let someone else disassemble one and see what's wrong with the lock. My guess is the third number of actual combo, in the forbidden zone, prevents you from completing the procedure. You can fix it by changing the combo with the back cover off, if you know what you're doing. Keep in mind this is a risky operation, because it's easy to damage the lock.

Good luck

ahhh right, that makes sense. i was about to dissassemble mine but thought i'd try here instead I guess i need to "fix" the third number. If there is a way i could reassemble the lock with the wheel for the third number in a different position (??i honestly i have no idea if that'd work) perhaps i could go back and work out the new third number like i did all three yesterday? and hope it's not in the "forbidden zone"
Anyway, unless someone says that's a good plan or suggests how, i'm not going to take it apart yet.
many thanks for the reply

[Squelchtone]

For anyone who may need them, here are the full instructions so we can call follow along. I have femurat's Manifoil lock, when I get home in 12 hours, I might be able to take a look, or try to change my combo and see how that works out for me.

The Factory Setting is 40 – 50 – 60 – (Final Number)

The final number in the combination will depend on the position of the locking bolt. The
most common number is 25. This number can not be changed.
When choosing the third number in your new combination please keep in mind that
depending on the “final number” you may not be able to use the following range of
numbers.

Final Number
0 - Do not use numbers between 95 and 10
25 - Do not use numbers between 20 and 35
50 - Do not use numbers between 45 and 60
75 - Do not use numbers between 70 and 85

To Open
1 Turn the dial right (clockwise) stopping when the first number comes to the arrow
mark on the fifth time.
2 Turn the dial left (anti-clockwise) stopping when the second number comes to the
arrow mark on the fourth time.
3 Turn the dial right (clockwise) stopping when the third number comes to the arrow
mark on the third time.
4 Turn the dial left (anti-clockwise) stopping when the final number comes to the arrow
mark on the second time.
5 Turn the dial right (clockwise) slowly until the lock operates and the dial refuses to
turn any further.
6 If the bolts are operated by a separate handle they may now be withdrawn and the
door or drawer can be opened.

To Lock
1. Turn the dial left (anti-clockwise) at least five turns.
Changing the Combination
1. With the door or drawer open, throw the bolts and turn the dial at least five full turns
to the left (anti-clockwise) to lock the combination lock.
2. Choose your three new numbers.
3. Using the change mark (straight line on the left) dial in the existing combination of
the lock.
4. Insert the change key into the back of the lock until the wing of the key has passed all
the way into the change key hole. Turn the change key 90 degrees to the left (anticlockwise). Leave the change key in this position.
5. Let’s assume that you are using the numbers 40 – 50 – 60 for your new combination.
 Turn the dial right (clockwise) stopping when the first number (40) comes to
the change mark (straight line) for the fifth time
 Turn the dial left (anti-clockwise) stopping when the second number (50)
comes to the change mark (straight line) for the fourth time
 Turn the dial right (clockwise) stopping when the third number (60) comes to
the change mark (straight line) for the third time
 WITHOUT MOVING THE DIAL FROM THIS POSITION turn the change key back
to the right (clockwise) 90 degrees and remove carefully from the lock
 The lock is now set to 40 – 50 – 60 – (Final Number)
*Please Note* It is very important at this stage to test the combination at least three
times before locking the container.

[MartinHewitt]

The final number is:

bolt to the left from the front (RH): 0
bolt down: 25
bolt to the right from the front (LH): 50
bolt up: 75

So only one number can work. If it is 0 for your lock, then it is 0.

Maybe you do not have the right change key?

[Raymond]

I have never had or played with a Chubb Manifoil lock before so I am suggesting this blindly. Can the opening combo open the lock by simply dialing all numbers left directly to 99 and then right to 0, without making the L-R-L-R turns? If so, try turning the dial right the same way, to 99 on the change index. If this does nothing, then the last wheel may have the change key socket turned 90 degrees and when you turn all of them you are locking the last wheel at the same time you are unlocking the other two wheels.
Just a thought

[femurat]

Can the opening combo open the lock by simply dialing all numbers left directly to 99 and then right to 0, without making the L-R-L-R turns?

Yes

[wonderous]

thank you all for your replies. i'm sorry i've not had a chance to test wha tyou say, as i have had to be away. i'll do it first thing in the morning and report
cheers