1890s Mosler

[-Aylor-]

Hello all!
I’m new to the forum and I found it looking for information about my safe.
My house was built in 1891 and it stayed in the same family until 1974 so I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it’s original to the house. It is unusual in that it has a safe inside the safe that is every bit as tough as the main compartment.

I have spoken to two of the three owners (one couple have passed away) that owned the house since the original family and none have had the combination to the inner safe. The ex-husband of the woman who I purchased it from paid a locksmith several hundred dollars to manipulate the main lock and found nothing of value so he cut his losses and didn’t pay to get the second lock opened.

My dad was a locksmith for a while and I have been messing with locks as long as I can remember so this is like a puzzle challenge. The main lock was left at 50-25-50 by the locksmith so I removed it took it apart, changed the combination and reassembled it to use to help me get a feel for manipulation after reading up on it. I found it very helpful to see how it interfaces with the bolts in the door. After seeing how that outer door is made, I can’t quite picture how the inner door bolts would work with respect to the lock but I guess I will if I keep after it long enough. Anyone have one like this to see how the inside of the door is made? Thanks in advance!

[-Aylor-]

Sorry, I tried google photos first.

[Publius]

Hi Aylor -- beautiful safe! The locked inner 'Jewelers Chest'/'Banker's Chest' safe-within-a-safe shown in your post above was actually a somewhat common feature in late 19th century safes made by Mosler, Diebold, etc., though many of them have since been removed to free up interior space or to sell the smaller strongbox separately. I managed to find some photos of an open Mosler Jewelers Chest that appears functionally identical to yours, showing the inner workings and the position of the locking mechanism relative to the boltwork -- hope these are helpful!

[-Aylor-]

Publius, those pictures are like lock/safe porn, they’re beautiful. They are very helpful. The banker’s chest makes perfect sense. The first owner of the house owned several zinc and lead mines as well as a bank. The pictures also solve the mystery of why that dial sounds different when spun compared to the main door lock even though the look identical. The inner one appears to be offset behind the lock with a gear to drive the cam wheel. The photo also prove to me that I would have drilled a hole in the wrong place to use a bore scope if all else failed. Thank you very much!

[bitbuster]

Outer door probably has the Mosler 5-H. The chest uses a Yale 025 1/2. When used in a Mosler container it is a
Mosler 12.

[-Aylor-]

The outer door has a lock marked Y https://i.imgur.com/aT1GGgk.jpg ale on the inside but I don’t know if it was sold that way or replaced at some point. The dials are the same but the outer appears to have been repaired at some point.

[Publius]

Almost certainly the original lock on the outer door, IMO -- not unusual to see an apparent mismatch like this (Mosler 5H with Mosler markings on the dial and a Yale Lock Co. stamp on the interior) since Yale was manufacturing lock components for Mosler during that period, which Mosler effectively 'white-labeled' by putting its name on the dial. You wouldn't know the lock's true maker unless you opened the door...

[-Aylor-]

Outer door probably has the Mosler 5-H. The chest uses a Yale 025 1/2. When used in a Mosler container it is a
Mosler 12.

Reading manipulation techniques for other types and brands of combination locks and practicing would seem to not be applicable to this style lock since any feedback in the dial would be lost in the gear that transfers the motion of the dial to the cam wheel and any possible sound created by the alignment of the gates and lever are covered by the sound of the gears meshing. Is there a specific technique for this style lock or am I doomed to drill?

[MartinHewitt]

These locks can be manipulated, but they are difficult even for someone experienced. Not sure if you are that determined. The contact point is only in one direction, probably clockwise/right, just in case. You could also try some easy numbers, e.g. all numbers the same or combinations like 10-20-30-40.