Old Skeleton key safe

[damonwill]

Hey all, I just picked up what looks like a very old safe that has a key instead of a dial. No key and its locked. I'm hoping someone on the forum might have some info on the safe or at least the lock. What I'm hoping for is a picture of a key that would go do it so I can figure out how to pick it...





Here is inside the key hole.






Anything would be helpful. Absolutely no info on the safe......

Thanks

[MartinHewitt]

It might be a Bramah Chubb lock.

https://wiki.koksa.org/Bramah_-_Chubbschloss
and second photo here: https://www.tresorservice24.de/index.ph ... tik-tresor

[damonwill]

Just to make this more interesting, the previous owner just confided in my that they found 12 coins and a couple silver forks in the gaps between the wood and safe. I borescoped all around the crate and was able to retrieve a silver butter knife.

Here is the knife I retrieved:


And here is one of the coins they retrieved:




Still no luck identifying the lock type. The "fingers" don't move that would touch the key barrel. And there are seven of the "fingers":


And it definitely looks like the assembly rotates so its not a standard skeleton key like on an old door or chest. I'm going to run some tests and see if the lock has any play it rotating... Is it possible the "fingers" are just alignment guides to make sure the key is centered??

[femurat]

As suggested, the lock looks like a Bramah. You need to correctly align all the sliders before being able to rotate the lock and retract the bolt.
Be careful not to damage the lock with force while trying to open it.

Good luck

[MartinHewitt]

And possibly levers too!

[GWiens2001]

I agree that it looks like a Chubb Bramah. The center part is straight up Bramah, while the levers are most likely Chubb.

It is a great find!

Gordon

[femurat]

Well, gentlemen, I think you were right. The pins DO move down but so does the entire key stop.



So you have to depress the key stop (or whatever its called) and then check each pin. And its pretty hard to depress the key stop to begin with. And where to add torque (what did the billet look like).... Gonna be fun.......

[GWiens2001]

Well, gentlemen, I think you were right. The pins DO move down but so does the entire key stop.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/B9DlIeDWOTc[/youtube]

So you have to depress the key stop (or whatever its called) and then check each pin. And its pretty hard to depress the key stop to begin with. And where to add torque (what did the billet look like).... Gonna be fun.......

If you really want to pick that lock, you should buy a Bramah lock first and pick it first. Don't risk the lock on that safe as your learning lock. It took 70 years with a HUGE prize (for the time) to the first person who could pick the Bramah lock before it was finally done.

Gordon

[damonwill]

Well, gentlemen, I think you were right. The pins DO move down but so does the entire key stop.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/B9DlIeDWOTc[/youtube]

So you have to depress the key stop (or whatever its called) and then check each pin. And its pretty hard to depress the key stop to begin with. And where to add torque (what did the billet look like).... Gonna be fun.......

If you really want to pick that lock, you should buy a Bramah lock first and pick it first. Don't risk the lock on that safe as your learning lock. It took 70 years with a HUGE prize (for the time) to the first person who could pick the Bramah lock before it was finally done.

Gordon

Great minds think alike. I'm already looking for one to purchase....

[damonwill]

Well, gentlemen, I think you were right. The pins DO move down but so does the entire key stop.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/B9DlIeDWOTc[/youtube]

So you have to depress the key stop (or whatever its called) and then check each pin. And its pretty hard to depress the key stop to begin with. And where to add torque (what did the billet look like).... Gonna be fun.......

If you really want to pick that lock, you should buy a Bramah lock first and pick it first. Don't risk the lock on that safe as your learning lock. It took 70 years with a HUGE prize (for the time) to the first person who could pick the Bramah lock before it was finally done.

Gordon

If anyone has a Bramah lock and key set I could buy, borrow, or rent, please PM me.

[nothumbs]

Some additional info on the lock https://hygra.com/locks/Bramah/

Matt Blaze has some ideas on picking the lock https://www.mattblaze.org/photos/misc/bramah/

[damonwill]

Formulating a plan....

Based on research, the key should have looked something like this:



Here is a sneak peak at Phase one... Not shown are the Carbon Fiber rods and the depth notches....



I'll going to try and use the impression technique to figure out the bit shape....

[femurat]

It sounds like a good plan.

Cheers

[peterwn]

If you really want to pick that lock, you should buy a Bramah lock first and pick it first. Don't risk the lock on that safe as your learning lock. It took 70 years with a HUGE prize (for the time) to the first person who could pick the Bramah lock before it was finally done.

That 'challenge lock' was a padlock and its Bramah mechanism had 12 sliders instead of the usual 6 sliders so no wonder it was a curse to pick. That padlock is in the Science Museum in London along with some jigs and specialised tools for making Bramah locks. Bramah locks have been manufactured for 236 years and are still considered a high security lock.

[GWiens2001]

If you really want to pick that lock, you should buy a Bramah lock first and pick it first. Don't risk the lock on that safe as your learning lock. It took 70 years with a HUGE prize (for the time) to the first person who could pick the Bramah lock before it was finally done.

That 'challenge lock' was a padlock and its Bramah mechanism had 12 sliders instead of the usual 6 sliders so no wonder it was a curse to pick. That padlock is in the Science Museum in London along with some jigs and specialised tools for making Bramah locks. Bramah locks have been manufactured for 236 years and are still considered a high security lock.

I was unaware that the challenge lock had twelve sliders instead of six. Thank you for the info!

Gordon