Resetting Mosler model 166 Pat'd 1882-1884

[ctbadbilly]

I found this old safe busted up in the woods. I took the lock apart and fixed it up. I figured out the combination and it works great. I want to reset the combination. I read all about it and changed the index marks on each wheel to the new numbers but the combination that opens the lock is totally different from what the wheels are set to.
Is there a certain way to put the wheel pack back into the lock, line it up a certain way? I'm really stumped.

Bill B.

[MartinHewitt]

Usually the wheels are numbered. Do you have photos of the parts?

[ctbadbilly]

The wheels are numbered. Stamped on the moving fly. They are in the correct order. I can see what combination lines up the gates to open the lock. They are in no way related to the settings on the wheels.
Thanks for taking an interest.

[Kaesekopf]

The wheels are numbered. Stamped on the moving fly. They are in the correct order. I can see what combination lines up the gates to open the lock. They are in no way related to the settings on the wheels.
Thanks for taking an interest.

Are they approximately 50 numbers opposite of what the mark on the mesh says? It would be a little easier to tell you more if you link pictures, there’s instructions

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=60483

[ctbadbilly]

Your suggested photo website wanted my credit card #
For pic go to billbr.smugmug.com
Select Local Stuff gallery, tap on that. Scroll to bottom for pic of wheel set to 50. Gate is in position to open when dial is at 81.
Wheels are set for combo-12-30-19-50
Lock opens at 81-0-88-20.
Looking at this it looks like the dial is off by 30, or very close.
So, how do I change the alignment of the dial to the wheel pack?
You making me think about is helping me figure it out. Just that one last thing,positioning the dial when I put the wheel pack in.
Thanks.

[Kaesekopf]

Your suggested photo website wanted my credit card #
For pic go to billbr.smugmug.com
Select Local Stuff gallery, tap on that. Scroll to bottom for pic of wheel set to 50. Gate is in position to open when dial is at 81.
Wheels are set for combo-12-30-19-50
Lock opens at 81-0-88-20.
Looking at this it looks like the dial is off by 30, or very close.
So, how do I change the alignment of the dial to the wheel pack?
You making me think about is helping me figure it out. Just that one last thing,positioning the dial when I put the wheel pack in.
Thanks.

Oh unfortunate, did not realize that the site wants credit card. Perhaps imgur should be a good recommendation going forward?

It also appears from your picture that someone was not confident with dialling accuracy so made it such that it will open more easily when numbers are slightly off.

I’m wondering if you can show a picture of the face of the dial, and another picture of the dial out of the safe, rotated so that the groove for the spline key is pointing up, from an angle where you can:
See the numbers on the dial
And also see the groove

I’m wondering what number the dial is splined to

Also, maybe see if there’s a way to change which way the spline key sits in the cam, on modern locks there are 4 possible orientations.

Also, show a picture of the cam wheel as well, starting to wonder if someone cobbled together parts to make a Frankenstein lock

Hope this helps!

[Squelchtone]

At the top of each reply there is a blue link that says [ Click here to include an image with your post ] and it tells you how to do it for free.

Please use https://imgbb.com/ and click the big blue button that says "Start Uploading" to upload some photos of your safe lock parts. I just tried it and it does not ask for a credit card or a login.

Instructions: How to include an image with your post

Please upload the images you would like to share to an image sharing site (see the easy steps below), then Copy/Paste the link to your image into your forum post.
*The forum does not support direct file attachments or uploads at this time, see end of this post for more information.

1. Visit https://imgbb.com/ and click the blue START UPLOADING button

2. Browse your computer, pick an image to upload, click the green UPLOAD button

3. Drop down the Embed codes menu and use "BBCode full linked"

Example:


4. Copy the link generated for you

5. Paste that link into your post here on the forum




I just noticed you put an address to the photo, took me a minute to find it in your fireworks folder.


Your wheel gates have been filed wider so that if you dial 48,49,50,51,52 the lock will still open, no more need to dial exactly 50 on that last wheel, the remaining wheel gates are probably filed wider as well.

We would need to see if your spindle has only 1 slot cut into the side of it for the spline key to be inserted, if you have several slots milled into the side of the spindle 90 degrees away from each other that might explain the offset in what you see on the dial vs where the wheels are aligning around 30 numbers off. There is a chance someone has removed the dial and pressed it onto the spindle with an offset, or your dial ring has turned thus moving the opening index mark 30 numbers over.

Please show photos of your dial and dial ring, as well as of the drive cam and hot it is affixed to the spindle (the threaded rod that goes all the way through the door to the dial)

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[ctbadbilly]

There’s only one groove in the spindle. I imagine I could grind a new slot at the precise place. The slot is about halfway between 5 and six o-clock when the dial is straight up to zero.
I’ll retry that site to post photos. I don’t know why it asked for my card number.
I’ll send more pics later. No time right now but I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and thoughts.

[Kaesekopf]

There’s only one groove in the spindle. I imagine I could grind a new slot at the precise place. The slot is about halfway between 5 and six o-clock when the dial is straight up to zero..

Using an angle grinder to cut a new slot in almost always goes terribly wrong, I'd recommend you find a friend with some milling equipment. A loose spline key can cause serious trouble.

From your description, it sounds like the dial is splined around 45 (Very rough approximation). To find the number, you should rotate the dial so that the groove is at the top, then note the number that most closely aligns with the groove.

I'm wondering though if the cam, not the spindle, has 4 grooves in it for the spline key, and the cam should be rotated 90 degrees relative to the spindle.

One more question, is your dial marked from 0 to 100, with an unmarked space in the middle?

[Squelchtone]

I wouldn't MacGyver the lock to take an angle grinder to any of the parts. This offset issue is probably something you can troubleshoot yourself or with help online from here or other groups. If you are not a lock person, or safe person, there are thing we may notice that are not obvious to you.

[ctbadbilly]

Thanks for all of your thought and help. There is only one groove anywhere. The dial goes from 99 to 0 directly. I now know that the dial is 30 points off from the wheel settings. I should just reset the wheels to 30 points off from my desired combination. This seems too simple but should do what I want. It won’t fix whatever is wrong but it won’t matter as long as I am the only one using the lock.
I’ll let you know.

[Squelchtone]

Thanks for all of your thought and help. There is only one groove anywhere. The dial goes from 99 to 0 directly. I now know that the dial is 30 points off from the wheel settings. I should just reset the wheels to 30 points off from my desired combination. This seems too simple but should do what I want. It won’t fix whatever is wrong but it won’t matter as long as I am the only one using the lock.
I’ll let you know.

Yeah, it's your lock, so sure do what you want, but if you ask for our help here, then please take our help, we want to make it work correctly for you and it doesn't seem like a tough job if we just put a few minutes into looking at it a bit closer. I would still like to see the photo of the front of the safe dial and dial ring to make sure your dial ring is not loose and has rotate out of position.

[ctbadbilly]

Ok, thanks. Big breakthrough. But first, the dial ring has no numbers, just the one index mark,(zero mark)
But, by turning the dial knob hard I felt it move a little, independent of the spindle. Turning it harder I realized that the dial knob and spindle are not one piece but screw into each other. By looking at marks on the knob it appears that someone used a pipe wrench to try to bust open the safe. They loosened the threads a part of a turn so the key groove on the spindle(shaft) was not aligned with the knob.
There are no shear pins or holes to show how tight the knob is screwed onto the shaft so I have to align it somehow. Should the key groove be top dead center with the zero mark on the dial?
I’m sure that one of you know that.
Thanks again.

[Squelchtone]

Ok, thanks. Big breakthrough. But first, the dial ring has no numbers, just the one index mark,(zero mark)
But, by turning the dial knob hard I felt it move a little, independent of the spindle. Turning it harder I realized that the dial knob and spindle are not one piece but screw into each other. By looking at marks on the knob it appears that someone used a pipe wrench to try to bust open the safe. They loosened the threads a part of a turn so the key groove on the spindle(shaft) was not aligned with the knob.
There are no shear pins or holes to show how tight the knob is screwed onto the shaft so I have to align it somehow. Should the key groove be top dead center with the zero mark on the dial?
I’m sure that one of you know that.
Thanks again.

Glad to hear you made this discovery but photos would really help, we just don't see what you see in front of you, so hard to provide advice or instructions. Did you take a cap off your dial to reveal how the dial and spindle interface together? was the dial press fit onto the spindle?

as for the dial ring, yes it is just the index mark, they normally do not have numbers on the dial ring. Sometimes the dial rings get loose and rotate away from 12 oclock which would affect the dialing of the lock in order to open it. In your case you figured out some other shenanigans happened to the dial so your dial ring is probably not rotated out of sync from 12 o'clock.

Squelchtone