Harrington Hall and Marvin dial stuck

[Zetta]

https://ibb.co/jhvzrKQ

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and hoping to gain some knowledge and assistance with this old Harrington Hall and Marvin safe we just found. My son bought a home in Grand Rapids, MI and discovered this safe behind a false wall in a kitchen cupboard. The HHM engraved dial will only turn to the right and at one point, I feel a clunk like something slides into place but I can’t turn to the left. The dial and handle seem to be stuck. I don’t know if someone jammed it trying to get it open or just what happened but it is a great conversation piece and I would love to bring it back to operational.

I’ve included (I hope) a picture of the identification plate if that helps. Please lmk if the image didn’t come thru and I will try again or type in the info

Any ideas and or assistance will be greatly appreciated.

[MartinHewitt]

Maybe the lock is open and the bolts are stuck? If the hinges are on the right side, then turn clockwise (otherwise ccw) and press on the door or hammer on it with your fist or rubber mallet.

[Squelchtone]

That plate doesn't help, it's just the UL fire and burglary rating.

Take a photo of the front of the safe of the entire door, hinges, dial and handle including the door corners, that will give us more info so we can tell you what kind of lock and mechanism you are dealing with.

what number on the dial does the dial stop dead at?

Thanks
Squelchtone

[Zetta]

The dial stops at 50 but I think the dial can be turned on the spindle so I’m not sure if 50 is really the correct number. I was able to drive out the hinge pins to see if that made any difference but the door is still stuck tight. I’ve attached a picture of the front of the safe.

https://ibb.co/ZN7yn54

[Squelchtone]

The dial stops at 50 but I think the dial can be turned on the spindle so I’m not sure if 50 is really the correct number. I was able to drive out the hinge pins to see if that made any difference but the door is still stuck tight. I’ve attached a picture of the front of the safe.

https://ibb.co/ZN7yn54

oh lordy, please put the hinge pins back in, that's what every non safe person thinks will magically open a safe door if they cut the hinges and smash the dial off with a hammer. lol.

Your handle seems to be missing.. grab that silver threaded stump tightly with a pair of Vice Grips hanging down from the stump like a pendulum and turn the numbered dial until it stops dead. Now rock the vice grips left and right or give them a whack with a rubber mallet left and right to see if you can retract the door bolts.

[Zetta]

Fair enough but at least now u know what an inexperienced idiot u r trying to help

I have reinstalled the hinge pins. I had actually tried working the handle with vice grips earlier while I worked the dial all the way around and especially at the number 50 mark. I tried it again with more percussive maintenance but the spindle still only moves about 1/8”. I’ve also tried rapping the door with a rawhide mallet to see if I can loosen the door bolts.

[Zetta]

Also, a bit more detail on the dial positions. When spinning the dial to the right, something moves when I hit 54 and then the dial moves freely from 54 to 51. Still spinning to the right, it feels like something moves or reengages starting at 51 and continues to “?drag?” until 47 then it spins freely for the rest of the dial.

Spinning left, something seems to start engaging at 47 then at 48, the dial jumps as if spring loaded to 51 and then spins freely from 51 to 54 and will go no farther.

[Squelchtone]

Also, a bit more detail on the dial positions. When spinning the dial to the right, something moves when I hit 54 and then the dial moves freely from 54 to 51. Still spinning to the right, it feels like something moves or reengages starting at 51 and continues to “?drag?” until 47 then it spins freely for the rest of the dial.

Spinning left, something seems to start engaging at 47 then at 48, the dial jumps as if spring loaded to 51 and then spins freely from 51 to 54 and will go no farther.

hmmm.. so the dial is at 54 and wont move, but the vice grip on the handle stump wont turn either.. sounds like the relocker has fired. The relocker is a spring loaded security add on that is meant to block the handle from turning if someone punches the lock out. This doesn't seem to be the case here, but it could have fire (more like sprung into action) and now the handle wont budge even if the combination is dialed correctly.

Reading some more about your safe, the 54 where the dial is stopping dead right now is not the usual place the dial should stop, which is around 80, so that's certainly interesting. This may mean it is not the relocker, but that the safe is still not dialed to the combination that would allow you to retract the door bolts.

Without knowing the actual combination or if the relocker has fired, the process to open this safe is involved and requires drilling, punching, and some other shenanigans with the bolts on the hinge side of the door, and is beyond what we can publically share without giving out info that could be misused by someone else who reads these posts at a later time. You can hit me up via Private Message and I can provide some pointers, but this unfortunately will not be a 5 minute opening.

Squelchtone

[bitbuster]

The safe might be their light duty fire safe. If so, last turn of dial is LEFT. Has 3 wheels with driver in front. Has an HHM dial. Can't tell by pic but it does look like an HHM dial. OR I could be totally wrong of my assumption.

[Zetta]

The dial does have HHM engraved into the dial, please see attached pic. Also I found a lightly spot welded plate on the bottom of the safe. If I remove that plate and the fire insulation I could then cut thru the floor of the safe. Would I then be able to remove the lock back plate and manipulate the lock from inside?

https://ibb.co/mhhbXR2

[bitbuster]

I'd advise against going through the bottom of safe as you might come in contact with ASBESTOS.

[Kaesekopf]

Also, a bit more detail on the dial positions. When spinning the dial to the right, something moves when I hit 54 and then the dial moves freely from 54 to 51. Still spinning to the right, it feels like something moves or reengages starting at 51 and continues to “?drag?” until 47 then it spins freely for the rest of the dial.

Spinning left, something seems to start engaging at 47 then at 48, the dial jumps as if spring loaded to 51 and then spins freely from 51 to 54 and will go no farther.

hmmm.. so the dial is at 54 and wont move, but the vice grip on the handle stump wont turn either.. sounds like the relocker has fired. The relocker is a spring loaded security add on that is meant to block the handle from turning if someone punches the lock out. This doesn't seem to be the case here, but it could have fire (more like sprung into action) and now the handle wont budge even if the combination is dialed correctly.

Reading some more about your safe, the 54 where the dial is stopping dead right now is not the usual place the dial should stop, which is around 80, so that's certainly interesting. This may mean it is not the relocker, but that the safe is still not dialed to the combination that would allow you to retract the door bolts.

Without knowing the actual combination or if the relocker has fired, the process to open this safe is involved and requires drilling, punching, and some other shenanigans with the bolts on the hinge side of the door, and is beyond what we can publically share without giving out info that could be misused by someone else who reads these posts at a later time. You can hit me up via Private Message and I can provide some pointers, but this unfortunately will not be a 5 minute opening.

Squelchtone

54 is approximately 25 increments away from 80, does the drive cam have multiple slots for mounting in different directions, and the last person used the wrong slot? Although the file I have says that safe comes with an M6730 lock, with a lever and pin relocker, and that cam should not have multiple slots from what I can see. It is very easy to reinstall the backplate with the relocker not correctly configured, if the safe was not tested properly before locking the safe, it could very well be that is was closed up with the relocker just waiting for the bolt to move to the locked position to activate.

[Zetta]

Thanks for the asbestos warning. I wouldn’t have considered that. However a friend of mine works for an asbestos abatement company and has access to their asbestos rated hepa filter vacuums. If I use his equipment and hazmat suit, I should be able to safely remove the bottom plate and whatever insulation I find beneath it if u feel I would then be able to remove the back plate and manipulate the gears to open the safe.