Milners restoration newbie

[OrangeKenny]

Good Morning Lockpicking101

First post here, with what I hope is an interesting project. Apologies in advance because I'm sure I won't use the correct terminology, but I hope I can get the point across.
I am trying to rescue an old safe from a building which is being demolished. It is a Milners double door behemoth, almost 7ft tall.
I plan to sandblast, patch and repaint the entire thing, but am looking for advice on how to remove the handles, latches and locking mechanism so I can refinish them separately. Also, would it be possible/worthwhile to open up the inside of the door to clean out the bolting mechanisms? In fact it would be really neat to be able to see the cams/levers/bolts on the inside of the door when open. Leave them exposed or visible through a glass panel. That would be a nice bonus.

The previous owner does not have the key anymore, but it is currently unlocked so it's basically a big cabinet at the moment. I have been told it is relatively straightforward to re-key these locks. But I would also consider a replacement lock, for peace of mind that there isn't another key out there somewhere.

Any advice, tips, words of caution etc is greatly appreciated. I'm not going for a historically accurate back-to-factory restoration, but I want to do a quality job. Do it right the first time, ya'know?

So I suppose my questions are:
1) Can anyone identify the model etc so I can research specs/manuals? Is there a serial number somewhere which might help?
2) How are the handles latches and locks removed?
3) Can the door itself be opened to access and clean the bolts/cams etc?
4) Pros and cons of re-keying or replacing the lock
5) Any other advice for a safe restoration newbie?

Hopefully this little project will take off, and I can share progress pictures (and ask follow-ups because I just know something will go wrong!)

[Squelchtone]

Hello,

I see you have been a forum member for quite a while, we're glad to see your first post!

That safe is beautiful! A little rough around the edges. My only concern is if you want to deal with Asbestos, which is more than likely inside. Someone from a British territory may know better about how to take that inside door apart to access the bolt work.

Here is a photo of a restored one: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/307722587 ... al-search/


look at the screws along the edge in this photo, does yours have similar screws? if the bolts are retracted and the screws removed, perhaps the entire back cover comes off.
https://citysafes.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/i/mi-vint-660-k-_7_.jpg

EDIT: I see the screws in your photo along the edge of the door, they are painted over in green paint.

Good luck with your restoration project, please share photos and findings along the way!

Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

Check the laws of your land. There are serious penalties for incorrectly dealing with asbestos, especially when dealing with any waste asbestos

Gordon

[OrangeKenny]

Thanks for the welcome, and tip about asbestos.
I'm well versed in hazardous materials and how to dispose of them here; I deal with that as part of my work. But it gets very expensive, and so I will avoid if possible. The thought hadn't even crossed my mind. I suppose "fireproof" should have been a clue.

[Squelchtone]

Thanks for the welcome, and tip about asbestos.
I'm well versed in hazardous materials and how to dispose of them here; I deal with that as part of my work. But it gets very expensive, and so I will avoid if possible. The thought hadn't even crossed my mind. I suppose "fireproof" should have been a clue.

I think the plate over the key hole says powderproof, so someone could not pour gun powder down the lock and blow it. Although it does look like a fire proof safe as well.

you'll know what you are getting into if you take the cover off, careful the boltwork may be attached to the cover and come off in 1 big assembly piece.

Squelchtone

[OrangeKenny]

The thing was too heavy to lift. The guys managed to sling it around the hinges and drag it up a rubble slope. Fingers crossed the door will still close properly. The rest is just cosmetic.
Curbside now, waiting for a truck to bring it to the restoration site.

[SixClicks12]

I don’t know too much about safes, that’s pretty cool though. Is that a prison you’re pulling it out of?

[GWiens2001]

You could look at getting some of the locks from the doors of that detention facility.

Gordon

[femurat]

This is going to be a highly entertaining thread, I'm going to follow it!
Good luck with your restoration project.

Cheers

[peterwn]

Check the laws of your land. There are serious penalties for incorrectly dealing with asbestos, especially when dealing with any waste asbestos

Gordon

I have had dealings with a Milner 212 safe over the years. AFAIK the insulating material is gypsum with some water content. The '212' refers to the boiling point of water meaning that in the case of a fire the interior temperature would not exceed 212 degrees Fahrenheit until all the water boils off.

As for the lock, once the back cover is removed, the lock can be removed by undoing six large screws. The lock is (in the one I know) a 7 lever barrel key lock with a curtain to actuate the boltwork. It can be rekeyed simply by swapping the levers around. It is not a double bitted key - the single bitted key is inserted bit down to unlock and bit up to lock. The space in the lock is kept to a minimum to limit the amount of gunpowder that can be inserted, hence the odd keyhole arrangement.

[OrangeKenny]

I don’t know too much about safes, that’s pretty cool though. Is that a prison you’re pulling it out of?

It's an old police station. I think the safe was used for storing drugs and evidence rather than fire arms, just from the way the shelves are set up inside. I'm chasing up with them to see if I can get a bit of history about when it was purchased, what it was used for etc.

You could look at getting some of the locks from the doors of that detention facility.

Gordon

That's a good idea! They had to cut the cell block (maybe half a dozen cells) into pieces to remove them. I expect it's all in the landfill now. I'll go take a look next time I'm up that way.

This is going to be a highly entertaining thread, I'm going to follow it!
Good luck with your restoration project.

Cheers

Entertainment is the goal! I'm certainly enjoying it so far.

I have had dealings with a Milner 212 safe over the years. AFAIK the insulating material is gypsum with some water content. The '212' refers to the boiling point of water meaning that in the case of a fire the interior temperature would not exceed 212 degrees Fahrenheit until all the water boils off.

As for the lock, once the back cover is removed, the lock can be removed by undoing six large screws. The lock is (in the one I know) a 7 lever barrel key lock with a curtain to actuate the boltwork. It can be rekeyed simply by swapping the levers around. It is not a double bitted key - the single bitted key is inserted bit down to unlock and bit up to lock. The space in the lock is kept to a minimum to limit the amount of gunpowder that can be inserted, hence the odd keyhole arrangement.

Fantastic, thank you! Yes I have seen what the plaques should be, and they read 212 so I got that far in my research. Really clever to use gypsum. I'm planning to use desiccant canisters to keep humidity down. I think thy gypsum should still hold on to it's moisture at normal temperatures.
I've still told the sandblaster to watch out for any suspicious material around the door seals just in case asbestos was used there.

I should have the back cover off soon. I'm hoping I don't have to do any work inside there and can just leave it as is. The levers and bolts move really well, maybe just re-grease. I will take the lock out if I can, and figure out the best way to tackle the problem. I see a bunch of keys on ebay and the like. Do you think it would be reasonable to get one of those and rearrange the levers to match? Do all locks use levers 1-7 in different orders, or do they have a random selection of levers? If the former I can get any key and rearrange the lock; if the latter I would need to get very luck to find a key that matches the set of levers.

Great info about the keyhole arrangement; I will definitely be telling people that when showing off my latest toy!

Now a good post is nothing without pictures... so here it is at the restoration yard. Really nothing to see but I have to include something. Good bit of rust on the bottom but it will chip/blast off, and body filler will smooth it out. Not too concerned about resistance to attack, and the bottom is the safest anyway (no pun intended).

It set off the alarm on the forklift, so it weighs close to 2 tons. I need to properly plan how to get in inside and positioned once it's all fixed up. It will be a tricky little installation job. But it's not fun if it's not a challenge!

And for interest, here are pieces of an artillery battery (big f-ing cannon) from the early 1800s being repainted also. That piece on the right is about 9ft tall to give you an idea of scale.

[GWiens2001]

I like seeing the other things that pop up in your pics.

Gordon

[demux]

And for interest, here are pieces of an artillery battery (big f-ing cannon) from the early 1800s being repainted also.

I've always had a bit of an interest in medieval siege engines, and would really love someday to build a big f-ing trebuchet to fling bits of whatever across our property. My wife is not nearly as amused by this idea as I am...

[GWiens2001]

And for interest, here are pieces of an artillery battery (big f-ing cannon) from the early 1800s being repainted also.

I've always had a bit of an interest in medieval siege engines, and would really love someday to build a big f-ing trebuchet to fling bits of whatever across our property. My wife is not nearly as amused by this idea as I am...

You and I sound a fair bit alike. So do our wives.

Gordon

[OrangeKenny]

Project is progressing slowly, but I'm not in any rush.

First pass with the sandblaster is done, and most body filling:


Brass is going to come up really well I think:


This marking is on the top hinge. "AU21". Anybody know what it could mean?


There was a fair bit of work needed on the base, but it's going well:


The mechanisms inside the door are in excellent condition. The previous coat of paint must have provided a good seal around the panel. Re-greased and moving very smoothly:


Going to lose this decal unfortunately. Too badly damaged. But this was always more of a salvage project than a restoration if you know what I mean:


Well that's it for now. Hope to get a good bit of progress in the next few days so I will post again as soon as there is anything worth posting.