I have an opened safe, what's the combo?

[johnb007]

Perfect explanation. I've come across many empty open safes, and this is exactly the process I use to determine the combination. Thanks for the pictures and write up!

[safecracker33]

Yes, the groove for the spline key is the entire length of the spindle.

What would be gained by 'removing' the spline key? The lock just would not work.

Gordon

On some spindles the spline key groove does not go all the way to the end of the spindle, and on some it does, there are tools and techniques to open some combination locks down the spindle hole if a suitable spindle is fitted, on some of the older/higher quality safes they used to use anti punch or tapered spindles which would prevent these modern attacks, but at the time were I believe to prevent a burglar pulling the dial and using the spindle hole to introduce explosives into the lock. It has been a long time since I have seen a punch proof spindle on a modern safe, It seems that cost is a bigger motivator in modern safe production than quality/security nowadays

[kwoswalt99-]

Yes, the groove for the spline key is the entire length of the spindle.

What would be gained by 'removing' the spline key? The lock just would not work.

Gordon

On some spindles the spline key groove does not go all the way to the end of the spindle, and on some it does, there are tools and techniques to open some combination locks down the spindle hole if a suitable spindle is fitted, on some of the older/higher quality safes they used to use anti punch or tapered spindles which would prevent these modern attacks, but at the time were I believe to prevent a burglar pulling the dial and using the spindle hole to introduce explosives into the lock. It has been a long time since I have seen a punch proof spindle on a modern safe, It seems that cost is a bigger motivator in modern safe production than quality/security nowadays

No need for a punch proof spindle if you have a good relocker setup.

[safecracker33]

Yes, the groove for the spline key is the entire length of the spindle.

What would be gained by 'removing' the spline key? The lock just would not work.

Gordon

On some spindles the spline key groove does not go all the way to the end of the spindle, and on some it does, there are tools and techniques to open some combination locks down the spindle hole if a suitable spindle is fitted, on some of the older/higher quality safes they used to use anti punch or tapered spindles which would prevent these modern attacks, but at the time were I believe to prevent a burglar pulling the dial and using the spindle hole to introduce explosives into the lock. It has been a long time since I have seen a punch proof spindle on a modern safe, It seems that cost is a bigger motivator in modern safe production than quality/security nowadays

No need for a punch proof spindle if you have a good relocker setup.

Agreed, a good relocker setup will stop or slow down some attack methods, but something like SEMS will get past any relocker setup by not firing them (internal or external) if the spindle can be removed, I just guess I miss the "good old days" where things were made/designed on a security basis more than a cost one.

[stratmando]

Many Safe Locks Have relockers, Forgive if mentioned. wont open unless pushed in, even with correct combo. Sorry if mentioned, sometimes the obvious can be overlooked or assume they are aware of.

[Darktone]

This post helped me with unlocking my inner safe vault. Thank you

[damonwill]

Thanks for the WRiteup!!

[NateHorne]

Hi,

Thank you for this incredible post. I was wondering how I could see the pictures? I just got an old safe (https://ibb.co/R9YrRDv) and it is open with the wheel (https://ibb.co/RNhBfng) out. I am trying to figure out what the current code is and/or make a new one. This post of yours seems perfect but I can't see the images which makes it harder to follow.

I also have been wondering if the 29-1832 on the knob had any significance. Was hoping it was the year it was made but unsure.

Best,
Nathan

[MartinHewitt]

Hi Nathan,

the wheel pack has so called mesh change wheels. They consist of two parts. There is the outer ring with the numbers and the inner ring with the pins and a notch. In your case the notch is at 60. This means this wheel is set to 60 and as it is the nearest to the drive cam it is the last number. When the last number is 60, then it is not unlikely that the other numbers are 20 and 40. You can try that one. Sometimes it is necessary to add or subtract a bit, because the dial ring is not mounted perfectly aligned.

To change the numbers the C clip on the top must be removed and then the pack can be separated. If you are doing this please keep track of the order and orientation of parts. Then you can look at all wheels and see where the notch of each is. This is then the combo. To change this the wheels must be separated into their two parts by holding a wheel with the numbers away and then press with the thumbs from the non-numbered side the inner ring out of the outer ring. Then change the orientation and push it back together. Then the wheel pack must be reassembled. Insert the the wheel pack and dial the combination without the final opening turn. You can then remove the wheel pack from the lock and check the position of the gates in case there are problems.

In any case test the full unlocking procedure at least three times before closing the door.

[Squelchtone]

I was wondering how I could see the pictures? I

The forum member who posted the pictures in 2013 probably no longer has their dropbox.com account.

The photos go to this location: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24142326/LP101/Manipulations/2013-04-24%2002.19.24.jpg

We've been around long enough to see entire image sharing platforms go out of business as well, which leaves an unfortunate hole in many older posts on the forum.

Squelchtone

[NateHorne]

Hi,

Thank you both so much! The picture link didn't open for me but from reading the reasoning for 60 being the number I understood and looked for the C-ring. After removing it the code ended up being 30-40-60 and after messing around with it for an hour I figured out that it was basically 27, third time on 37, second time on 57, then 2. I'm going to change it but wanted to let y'all know that your responses were very much appreciated.

I'm going to post this on another thread as well, but does anyone have an idea A. what actual type of safe it is (York was my first guess upon searching it) and B. what year it was made (knob says 29-1832).

Thanks again,
Nathan

[GWiens2001]

Well done!

Keep in mind when you change the combination, be aware that the numbers on the wheels may not match what the actual combination turns out to be. Quite common on older safes.

Also, test the combination several times before you close the door. The last thing you want is to close the door, turn the knob and then find out that the combination does not open the lock.

Gordon

[CWR68]

Good morning all, I am new to the antique safe world so pardon me if I use the wrong vocabulary asking my questions. I have a Cary safe manufactured in 1925, I am looking at the wheel pack and count five wheels. If I'm looking at the dial and rotate it until all the gates are aligned directly above the center mark on the dial face I get the numbers from back of the pack to front 78,92,63,88,70 how do I dial this safe? I have tried a number of times with no success. Thanks for any help.
Whitt

[Squelchtone]

Good morning all, I am new to the antique safe world so pardon me if I use the wrong vocabulary asking my questions. I have a Cary safe manufactured in 1925, I am looking at the wheel pack and count five wheels. If I'm looking at the dial and rotate it until all the gates are aligned directly above the center mark on the dial face I get the numbers from back of the pack to front 78,92,63,88,70 how do I dial this safe? I have tried a number of times with no success. Thanks for any help.
Whitt

Greetings and welcome. I think some photos would greatly help as we don't see exactly what you see in front of you.

Could you please share a photo of the dial and handle, as well as the lock mechanism inside the safe door, and then the wheel pack so we can see the wheel arrangement and what kind of wheel pack it is (hand change, key change, screw change, etc)

Here's a super easy way to upload and share photos here: https://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60483&p=445410#p445410

Looking forward to seeing what you have, I'm sure we can figure out how to dial it.

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[MartinHewitt]

Without photos I can only assume this is a straight tailpiece lock. It is possible to dial this as 5L-4R-3L-2R-1L and 5R-4L-3R-2L-1R. You should decide which one you want, because the numbers shift and these are two different combinations. I would select 5R-4L-3R-2L-1R, because a final right rotation is the most common in locks. When you look up your combination on the open lock you need to turn in the correct direction for the specific wheel. So turn right until the gate of the latest turning wheel aligns, note the number, then left, not the number and so on. This is then also your opening sequence.