Mosler Cannonball Safe (Parts Missing)

[djed]

The safe is starting to give up its secrets.

It turns out when I started to wire brush the lower compartment that someone previously put a hole in the back of the safe. It was plugged so I can't see inside.

I greased and reassembled all the parts to the door and noticed I am missing a few screws and the cap for the top of the hinge.

The screw mechanism to open the top door has a model number of OS 101. There is also a serial number but I'll hold off posting that for now.

The screw mechanism does NOT take a 1" drive socket wrench as I guessed. It does turn with my 3/4" drive socket wrench but that is clearly not the right size. I'll measure and fabricate something since I don't have the crank.

I built my platform to support the door and got to turning. At first, it jammed when trying to open. GULP. I reversed direction and then started to open again. This time, I made it all the way. My Geraldo Rivera moment was somewhat anticlimactic (which I must say was a good thing). There was at least three cups of dirt and rust particles under the door. The actual compartment was worse.

Here are the pictures.

https://imgur.com/H3UzcGA
https://imgur.com/SR96ri3
https://imgur.com/H5MeoCL
https://imgur.com/fjtlh7J
https://imgur.com/KkZwarw
https://imgur.com/bge9WPc
https://imgur.com/gcNfFM

The good news is that the dial, dial plate, and lock are inside. The bad news is that they appear to be in pretty bad shape.

https://imgur.com/iX1Tn7e
https://imgur.com/taLejMY
https://imgur.com/R0wk0Eb
https://imgur.com/Dt9o24Q
https://imgur.com/6BOZyPz

I also am unable to get the back plate (with the time lock) off. I have no idea if there is even a time lock in there. Any help with this is appreciated.

[Squelchtone]

That's excellent news! Even with the plate and lock not in great shape, it's still easier to clean up that lock than to find one used on ebay or at a flea market.

Thanks for the opening pics! that time lock plate.. averagejoe will be able to tell you more, it just looks like it rusted to death, I wonder if a google search of that type of safe will show some restored doors and time locks so you can spot where the screws are hiding under the rust on yours.

I'm on the edge of my seat, very excited that you found the lock inside!
Squelchtone

[averagejoe]

Very nice. Not sure of model numbers but that is a Mosler time lock. Somebody replaced the glass with something solid after it was broken. No telling how good the movements are with the condition of everything else.

The key is very simple, just like a handcuff key but smaller. You can use a small bent paperclip to open it. I would not polish it as it can ruin the decorative finish.


The safe lock should be perfectly salvageable. I believe they were made with something called "Japanned iron" at the time.

Edit:
Here are a few pictures of what it could look like. I have seen a few different finish variations. http://www.my-time-machines.net/mosler_3mvt.htm

[djed]

AverageJoe,

If I open the door to the time lock, will it reveal a screw that is holding the back plate in place?

As a follow up, will removing the time lock cause any other problems?

So far, the safe mechanics/design have been straightforward and easy to reassemble. I'm in unchartered territory with time locks so I don't want to "fix" something if it will cause a bigger problem.

[kwoswalt99-]

The back plate should only be held on by two or three screws, none of which would be behind the time lock.

[djed]

The back plate should only be held on by two or three screws, none of which would be behind the time lock.

I've removed the two large screws that were on the face of the back plate and worked a pair of screwdrivers all around the outside edge of the plate but something (maybe rust?) is holding that plate on. I definitely get more lift on the right side than on the left.

I did find the following picture in case it makes sense to someone.

https://imgur.com/iUeDF9P

[GWiens2001]

Think I have pics from one of them as I was removing it from a screw door safe. Have to check around.

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

Think I have pics from one of them as I was removing it from a screw door safe. Have to check around.

Gordon

The time locks were mounted differently on the square screw door safes.

[averagejoe]

AverageJoe,

If I open the door to the time lock, will it reveal a screw that is holding the back plate in place?

As a follow up, will removing the time lock cause any other problems?

So far, the safe mechanics/design have been straightforward and easy to reassemble. I'm in unchartered territory with time locks so I don't want to "fix" something if it will cause a bigger problem.

No, you will have to remove the movements first. There should be 4 screws in the outer corners that when removed will allow all the movements to come out on the mounting plate. Once that is out you will be able to remove the case screws that hold the time lock into place.

Removing the time lock should not cause any problems. Just be careful to not drop it, they are actually quite heavy for their size.

[averagejoe]

Also, if you need to ask questions I would go with this guy. He does some amazing work and might know a few tips that could make it easier. https://www.facebook.com/Matts-Antique-Safe-Restoration-114499335320464/?fref=nf

[djed]

First off, my thanks to Average Joe for his assistance.

I finally got the plate around the time lock off. In a nutshell, the hinges from the time lock plus the rust was what was keeping the plate stuck on. I shimmed the right (non-hinge) side of the plate until it cleared the right side of the time lock container. I then struck the plate with a rubber mallet. It just popped off. Boy was that plate and compartment rough.

https://imgur.com/DOGPtMQ
https://imgur.com/ObQD3Ha
https://imgur.com/fQgrRUp
https://imgur.com/2dam5kn
https://imgur.com/YQTpkJ4

Getting the time lock open was a bit of an effort as I have never picked a lock before. Without giving away any secrets, the pictures illustrate what you are facing.

https://imgur.com/M3uYkU9
https://imgur.com/MHyhnPA

The time lock itself is in rough shape.

https://imgur.com/clB5GAO
https://imgur.com/VcnT3c3

I cleaned it a bit with a Q-tip but the lettering started coming off the dial.

https://imgur.com/suBEDue

This must be a later model cannonball or the time lock was replaced with a later model based on the patent date shown on the inside cover.

https://imgur.com/ZdULQrt
https://imgur.com/GaB8bGR
https://imgur.com/MHyhnPA

I'll post some additional updates/pictures tonight about the lock.

[Mighty]

What are you using to remove the rust? Just physical abrasion, or are you using an anti-rust chemical?

[averagejoe]

Oh , that is a crying shame... That thing had to have been submerged time and time again.

The case should be fine but every movement will need to be replaced... A very expensive and time consuming process. I have only seen 2-3 of that model time lock sell so they are fairly rare.

[djed]

AverageJoe - thank you. Please keep me in mind as time locks or their parts come up. I'm in no hurry. By the way, I would appreciate if you reply with the time lock model number.

As for rust removal, for parts I'll use vinegar and a rough terry cloth rag where possible. I step up to a brand rust remover when that doesn't work. I'll then try a scuff pad or steel wool where needed. The next step is sand paper and then a wire wheel on a bench grinder. I've had to go to the wire wheel and belt sander more than I'd like due to the pitting I've found.

For the safe interior, I used a wire wheel on my corded drill.

For the safe exterior, I used a cup brush on my grinder. Since I'm dealing with lead paint, I've been careful to use ventilation protection.

As I mentioned above, if anyone sees a time lock for sale, I would appreciate if you send me a private message.

David

[averagejoe]

I am not sure of the model number unfortunately.

You could try to message this guy and see if he has any left that match the ones on your time lock. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOSLER-safe-vault-bank-time-lock-movement-/121869159692