Victor safe assistance

[MartinHewitt]

I would not assume that there is a technical problem just because nobody opened it for a long while. Combinations are often forgotten and people are often not interested in a safe. The safe then becomes protected by an SEP field.

[bitbuster]

Last turn to right. That's it.

[Squelchtone]

hey look, there's a lock on ebay, you get to see the inside in case you want to try your hand at safe cracking.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Antique-C ... 3347669466

[Caretaker1059]

That photo is worth a thousand words.
Here is what I have figured out on my own
Turn the dial 4 turns to left. then if you move just a bit to the right and then back left you can feel the drive pick up the first number wheel
Leave this at a known place
Turn dial then to right and you will feel the 2nd number wheel get picked up. This will happen without movement of the first wheel.
Then turn the dial left and feel the last number wheel get picked up. This will happen without movement of either of the other 2 wheels.
Not sure what I will do with this information but I will keep working on it . That photo will be a big help
Thanks
Tim

[Squelchtone]

That photo is worth a thousand words.
Here is what I have figured out on my own
Turn the dial 4 turns to left. then if you move just a bit to the right and then back left you can feel the drive pick up the first number wheel
Leave this at a known place
Turn dial then to right and you will feel the 2nd number wheel get picked up. This will happen without movement of the first wheel.
Then turn the dial left and feel the last number wheel get picked up. This will happen without movement of either of the other 2 wheels.
Not sure what I will do with this information but I will keep working on it . That photo will be a big help
Thanks
Tim

Looking at the internal wheels, it looks like the gate width takes up 1/16 of each wheel, so your combination space should be 16 x 16 x 16 or 4096 possible gate alignment opportunities. (I wont say combinations since the gate is pretty wide so the combo could be 3 - 10 - 20 or 6 - 10 - 20 and both 3 and 6 would be over the a gate and still let the fence (the beak as I like to call it) fall in.

On the outside dial, this translates to each gate being 6.25 numbers wide breaking the dial up into 16 segments.

I would try your hand at dialing every possible combination starting at 0 - 0 - 0 then do 10 - 0 - 0 then 20 - 0 - 0 all the way to 90 - 0 - 0 then start with 0 - 10 - 0, 10 - 10 - 0 ... 90 - 10 - 0, all the way to 90 - 90 - 0 then do 0 - 0 - 10 , then 10 - 0 - 10 , 10 - 0 - 20

Have you seen or tried these factory combinations? I'm not sure if they would work for your safe but worth a try...

*not sure what they mean by the 5, since all progression seems to be +1 not +5 and the 2nd combo progression should be 1-13-83-93, I believe the 89 is a mistake.

I extrapolated the factory combos from the book, and if they are correct for your safe to begin with, it leaves you with 100 combinations to try out. The book also has the dialing order written funny (probably a mistake with R4L3L2R < should be R4 L3 R2 L1 with your safe however it would be L4 R3 L2 R1-to-retract-bolt

*** I don't know how much I trust that book, or if this will work for your lock, so grab a beer or 5 and enjoy an evening dialing these 100 combinations:

L4 - R3 - L2 - R1
0 - 12 - 82 - 92
1 - 13 - 83 - 93
2 - 14 - 84 - 94
3 - 15 - 85 - 95
4 - 16 - 86 - 96
5 - 17 - 87 - 97
6 - 18 - 88 - 98
7 - 19 - 89 - 99
8 - 20 - 90 - 0
9 - 21 - 91 - 1
10 - 22 - 92 - 2
11 - 23 - 93 - 3
12 - 24 - 94 - 4
13 - 25 - 95 - 5
14 - 26 - 96 - 6
15 - 27 - 97 - 7
16 - 28 - 98 - 8
17 - 29 - 99 - 9
18 - 30 - 0 - 10
19 - 31 - 1 - 11
20 - 32 - 2 - 12
21 - 33 - 3 - 13
22 - 34 - 4 - 14
23 - 35 - 5 - 15
24 - 36 - 6 - 16
25 - 37 - 7 - 17
26 - 38 - 8 - 18
27 - 39 - 9 - 19
28 - 40 - 10 - 20
29 - 41 - 11 - 21
30 - 42 - 12 - 22
31 - 43 - 13 - 23
32 - 44 - 14 - 24
33 - 45 - 15 - 25
34 - 46 - 16 - 26
35 - 47 - 17 - 27
36 - 48 - 18 - 28
37 - 49 - 19 - 29
38 - 50 - 20 - 30
39 - 51 - 21 - 31
40 - 52 - 22 - 32
41 - 53 - 23 - 33
42 - 54 - 24 - 34
43 - 55 - 25 - 35
44 - 56 - 26 - 36
45 - 57 - 27 - 37
46 - 58 - 28 - 38
47 - 59 - 29 - 39
48 - 60 - 30 - 40
49 - 61 - 31 - 41
50 - 62 - 32 - 42
51 - 63 - 33 - 43
52 - 64 - 34 - 44
53 - 65 - 35 - 45
54 - 66 - 36 - 46
55 - 67 - 37 - 47
56 - 68 - 38 - 48
57 - 69 - 39 - 49
58 - 70 - 40 - 50
59 - 71 - 41 - 51
60 - 72 - 42 - 52
61 - 73 - 43 - 53
62 - 74 - 44 - 54
63 - 75 - 45 - 55
64 - 76 - 46 - 56
65 - 77 - 47 - 57
66 - 78 - 48 - 58
67 - 79 - 49 - 59
68 - 80 - 50 - 60
69 - 81 - 51 - 61
70 - 82 - 52 - 62
71 - 83 - 53 - 63
72 - 84 - 54 - 64
73 - 85 - 55 - 65
74 - 86 - 56 - 66
75 - 87 - 57 - 67
76 - 88 - 58 - 68
77 - 89 - 59 - 69
78 - 90 - 60 - 70
79 - 91 - 61 - 71
80 - 92 - 62 - 72
81 - 93 - 63 - 73
82 - 94 - 64 - 74
83 - 95 - 65 - 75
84 - 96 - 66 - 76
85 - 97 - 67 - 77
86 - 98 - 68 - 78
87 - 99 - 69 - 79
88 - 0 - 70 - 80
89 - 1 - 71 - 81
90 - 2 - 72 - 82
91 - 3 - 73 - 83
92 - 4 - 74 - 84
93 - 5 - 75 - 85
94 - 6 - 76 - 86
95 - 7 - 77 - 87
96 - 8 - 78 - 88
97 - 9 - 79 - 89
98 - 10 - 80 - 90
99 - 11 - 81 - 91

Hope this helps,
Squelchtone

[MartinHewitt]

Squelchtone, in your calculation of possible combinations you calculate for three wheels, but the factory combinations look like to be for four wheels. Why is that so? As there is no cam, shouldn't it be possible to feel the gate of the largest wheel?

[billdeserthills]

Squelchtone, in your calculation of possible combinations you calculate for three wheels, but the factory combinations look like to be for four wheels. Why is that so? As there is no cam, shouldn't it be possible to feel the gate of the largest wheel?

The last turn retracts the bolt

[Squelchtone]

Squelchtone, in your calculation of possible combinations you calculate for three wheels, but the factory combinations look like to be for four wheels. Why is that so? As there is no cam, shouldn't it be possible to feel the gate of the largest wheel?

The last turn retracts the bolt

exactly. the last number doesnt really matter as long as it allows the fence to drop and that last turn Right is pretty much a brute force attack so I would dial last wheel slowly until it drops in or you may end up dialing it all the way around and if it doesnt drop then try the next combination. (this is the plan, in theory, at least)

I welcome any corrections or any other advice, thank you all
Squelchtone

[bitbuster]

Noticed in McOmie's 'Safe Opening Vol 4' that all 100# dial Victor's with the L2 lock have a DI of 93-95. The only exception to this are the much smaller 100# dial Victor's (with or w/o ears), with DI being 88. The 93-95 and 88 are not the last # of the combo but only the position of the driver at DI. (if you could use x-ray vision and look from front of safe).

[Squelchtone]

I do wonder which Victor safes which which Yale or other locks would have used the 4 number combination and RLRL way of dialing as I found in the book where I took that image from. Hate to send OP on wild goose chase. OP what were the test combinations you tried and where did you find them?

Thoughts anyone?
Squelchtone

[Caretaker1059]

Wow a lot of info to go through.
I will try to get at it this week.
Squelchtone. I notice the 5 in the chart you posted applies if you read the chart down instead of across. I agree the 89 is a mistake.
You will be the 2nd people after the wife who know what is inside this thing of I get it open .
By the way this was posted on my local Craigslist
Perhaps there is someone on here with interest.
I have no connection to these folks but free safes are free safes.
Thanks again for all the info.
Tim
https://vermont.craigslist.org/zip/d/fl ... 70318.html

[Caretaker1059]

Sorry
Forgot to answers question about combos
Several were provided by previous to the previous owner. All 3 digit with a last turn to the right to 0 then left to pull bolts.
3 were from a book called hpc safe and lock
Non of them worked
They also said last turn to 0 for drop in
Thanks again
Tim

[bitbuster]

I do wonder which Victor safes which which Yale or other locks would have used the 4 number combination and RLRL way of dialing as I found in the book where I took that image from. Hate to send OP on wild goose chase. OP what were the test combinations you tried and where did you find them?

Thoughts anyone?
Squelchtone

Funny how some safe combos are recalled, remembered, or were 'told' this is how so and so 'opened' it.The following is the 'known' combo of an old Victor that sits in a town hall in southern Wis. Of course, this convoluted, but incorrect combo was written down by the last person to have it open, now long deceased. This is what was written as the combo:
CCW (left) 6 times. stop at 0.
CW (right) 2 times. stop at 5.
CCW 2 times. stop at 38.
CW 1 time. stop at 10
I tried those numbers LRLR 4321 in many different orders with zero results. The township clerk told me that the safe only contained old township maps. She checked into getting it drilled for a $200 fee but board members don't want that done.
HPC 'Safe and Vault' book also lists 'try-out' combos as RLRL. In an issue of NSO, McOmie refuted the RLRL sequence and said it is correct at LRLR. Maybe CT1059's safe combo is just an anomaly.

[Caretaker1059]

Greetings all
Tried a few of the combinations listed. NO luck will try the rest ASAP
Studying the mechanism in the photo I believe the sequence has to be LRLR as the bolt will need to be pulled during a right turn.
Dialing the 3 numbers lines up the 3 wheel notches with the beak then turning back to the right slowly the beak should drop at some point then turning further will pull the bolt. This means the instructions I received from previous owner are incorrect. ie turn to 0 then back left to open as the mechanism in the photo will not open if you are turning left.
I apologize if this is common knowledge. Thinking out loud here.
Thanks again for all the help
Tim

[007Safecracker]

i manipulated one about a year ago.also there are some tryout combo in the safe and vault manual