Old Gardall 1812 - Know the combo, but it stopped opening!

[BigZ]

I have a 30+ year old Gardall 1812 (1 hour fire rated model, not the newer 2 hour one) with a S&G dial on it that I have opened many times before. I've kept it at my folks place to store odds and ends. On my most recent visit home, I went to open the safe, but no dice. At first I thought I was just messing up the dial order since it had been awhile since I had last opened it. I tried several times to no avail, and I even referenced the original combo slip that came with it when it was new. To go even further, I had once made a video on my phone of me opening that exact safe in case of me forgetting or loosing the combo. I referenced that and I dialed everything verbatim, but the bloody thing still wont open. I even felt a little bit of tension like I usually do on the last digit as if it wants to go, but it just spins after I input the last digit.

What is up with this thing? What are my options? +-1 on the combo digits? Call Gardall/S&G and whine?

I have access to the tools to brute force it, but I really like this old safe and I'd rather keep it in tact (it was given to me by my late grandfather) to replace the lock if its just a malfunction with the S&G. The angle grinder or oxy/acetylene torch is my absolute last option. I really don't want to have to go there.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[femurat]

I agree about not ruining such a beautiful safe.

You may try some tests to find out what's wrong, there are some tutorial about this and I remember I saw a very good one... this may be a good starting point.

Good luck and let us know how this story ends

[BigZ]

Thanks femurat! I sort of tried the first one by giving the door a few pounds with my fist while on the last digit, but S&G's method with the mallet sounds more effective. I'll give that a try. I really feel like it is, indeed, a stuck lever just because of the way the dial feels on the last digit. Once I am successful (hopefully), what can I do to prevent this from happening again? Should I just replace the old dial and lock, or is there a bit of DIY maintenance to do?

[femurat]

You're welcome BigZ. If you manage to get it open I suggest a safe tech inspect and service it. If you're mechanically inclined you may try to disassemble the back cover and clean the lock, but it may be safer to get a new one. If you're unsure about the lock conditions you may post here some pictures of it and we may tell you if it's still good or not.
Whatever you do, don't close the safe before you are sure you addressed the problem and checked the lock works properly at least three times with the door open.

Good luck

[Squelchtone]

This may be in the S&g troubleshooting papers, but pick up all the wheels counterclockwise and turn the dial 360 degrees at least 5 times around. This is over kill, but wont hurt for this project.

Dial the combination as you would 4L, 3R, 2L, and then once to the right to where the dial normally pulls the bolt somewhere from 90 to 05. If you remember or can get this exact number from watching your video, stop on that number and quickly jerk the wheel back and fourth +/- 5 numbers from that known last number where you used to remember the lock make a clunk noise and then you would turn another 10 numbers until the dial stopped dead.

The bet here is that one of your wheels is off by a few and or the fence is not wanting to fall into the gates, so wiggling the dial back and fourth quickly +/- 5 numbers on the dial might just nudge the wheel in question over enough to allow the fence to drop in.

This has worked for me in the past, but you already thought of dialing the combination plus or minus off a couple numbers and that's a good plan as well.

If combo is 10 20 30 try dialing 9, 20, 30, or 11, 20, 30 and then do the 2nd number so 10, 19, 30, or 10, 21, 30 and so on.

good luck,
Squelchtone

[BigZ]

Thanks for the advice. It sounds like I have a few new tricks to try out when I get back home later this week . I'll just have to wait and see which method works.

As for when I do get it open, I like to think I pretty mechanically inclined, and I'm not opposed to attempting to repair the lock myself. However, I could always pull the lock for something to tinker with and learn on, and replace it on the safe with a new model. What would be a good choice for a replacement lock? Another S&G perhaps?

[LockDocWa]

S&G has been making mechanical locks for about a century.
I will not buy another electronic lock from them ( 6120 farce )
But for an economical dial lock which has been great for many years,
it's hard to beat the 6730. You might also consider an AMSEC or Big Red as well.

[BigZ]

Got it! It turned out to be a stuck lever. After a few minutes of whacking the door with a rubber mallet, it finally opened. I did not pull the lock apart yet, but I'll be looking into that possibly this weekend.

LockDocWa: I haven't looked at AMSEC or Big Red, but I've read a little bit about the 6730's. Sounds like they have a pretty solid reputation (at least to a newbie like me). What happened with your electronic S&G?

[femurat]

I'm happy you solved the issue! About an electronic lock: how long have you been using your mechanical lock without problems? If you expect this to happen to an electronic lock, you're gonna have a bad time. Go for an old good 6730 and you won't be disappointed.

Cheers

[Squelchtone]

Congrats on getting it open!

Can I ask though.. you said after dialing the combo, the dial never stopped it just spun past the last number.. in order to turn the handle, the dial has to be stopped because the bolt has to be retracted first. Was your dial stopping, but the handle was just stuck so you couldnt retract the big round chrome bolts?

Thanks, just curious,
Squelchtone

[BigZ]

The dial was definitely not stopping. It was behaving as if I had input the wrong combination. After whacking the door with the mallet while turning to the right after the last number, I felt the lock behaving more like normal, and then it stopped hard on 96 like usual and it opened.

femurat: The 6730 is sounding better and better. I've had this safe in my posession for 2 years, and it was my grandfather's for a long time before that. I probably opened and played with it a lot more than he did though . My only concern is that I may re-purpose this safe to store a pistol, and quick access is highly desirable. With that said, reliability is too. Should I just look for another lockbox for the gun?

[femurat]

Quick access? Only you know how quick you need it. Quickly opening a safe in a stressful moment isn't easy... keeping it in your belt is easier

[LockDocWa]

Got it! It turned out to be a stuck lever. After a few minutes of whacking the door with a rubber mallet, it finally opened. I did not pull the lock apart yet, but I'll be looking into that possibly this weekend.

LockDocWa: I haven't looked at AMSEC or Big Red, but I've read a little bit about the 6730's. Sounds like they have a pretty solid reputation (at least to a newbie like me). What happened with your electronic S&G?

I have replaced more S&G 6120 locks than all other manufacturers combined.....

[BigZ]

Ok, so I played with the lock a bit over the past week. It seems that the middle number of the combination shifted by 1 digit somehow. The lever was sticking a bit too, so I lubed up the lock with a synthetic lube spray (Tri-Flow). Everything spins much better now, but the whole combination shifting issue is bugging me. How does this happen? What can I do to prevent it? Another issue I found was that the lock mounting screws were a tad loose. I'm thinking they me be the culprit for the combination shift.

The link below is a brief video I shot talking about the safe a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxoTj0ajN9I

Quick access? Only you know how quick you need it. Quickly opening a safe in a stressful moment isn't easy... keeping it in your belt is easier

Quick enough to shoot a local meth head crawling in through my window.

I have replaced more S&G 6120 locks than all other manufacturers combined.....

So you're saying the 6120's aren't a safe bet (no pun intended)? What about 6730's?

[somenewguy]

My advice would be, if you don't trust the lock, replace it or have it serviced by a safe tech.

As for the pistol, there are much faster options: http://www.gunvault.com/gun-safes.html I am not endorsing this brand specifically, but there are a whole sub-genre of safes which are designed for (some) physical protection and much faster access (and in no-light conditions to boot).

If there are ever kids in your place, you definitely need to keep the guns locked up.