Mosler with no Combination

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Hello,

I just bought this safe and do not have the combination to it. I did some search here before posting but thought I would introduce myself. I am Bill Overton and live on the Texas Gulf Coast. I also have a Hall Safe dated 1846 (174 years old) that I inherited from my Grandfather that I used frequently. We were flooded during Hurricane Harvey in August 2017. The Hall safe went totally under water for four days. When I was able to get back to our house about a week later, one of the first things I did is I opened the Hall safe knowing that if I waited too long, I may not be able to open it. I plan to restore that safe some day, just have not gotten to it yet, we had a house to rebuild.

Recently I have been on the look out for another safe that I could use. There is a guy in our area that bought several Mosler safes in auction from the Post Office. He sold all but one and restored that one for himself. The safe that was inside, he did not have the combination for so he pulled it out. He had to grind the welds that held the smaller safe inside. I bought that smaller safe for $50 this last Saturday. I used my trailer to get it home. Man, is that safe HEAVY!

Now that I have the Mosler home, I need to get to work figuring out the combination. I included a couple of picture of it while it was still on the trailer. I had just gotten it home when I took the pictures. We drove through some rain which is why it is wet in the pictures.

Can someone tell me more about this safe by looking at the pictures? I was told it was built in 1939, but I have not found any dates, model numbers or serial number on it. I would bet those are on the larger safe that this one was pulled from.

Any comments or advice is welcome.

Thanks!

[Squelchtone]

I would try to dial the combination that is normally set when a safe is retired. 50-50-50 or 25-50-25 or 50-25-50

You will also have to know the dialing order for that lock, such as 4 times to the left to the 1st number, 3 times to the right to the 2nd number, 2 times to the left to the 3rd number and then 1 time to the right until the bolt opens. (yours may be different than this example)

Does the dial spin easily in both directions?

your handle is broken and missing the other half.. it should turn counter clock wise to open the door.

Squelchtone

[MartinHewitt]

The newest patent listed on the safe was issue in 1938. https://patents.google.com/patent/US2124758A/en (Usually most of the patents listed on a safe or lock have nothing to do with item.) 1939 is possible, but it could also be newer.

The lock is probably one with a spring loaded flipper fence, e.g. a KCB-107. In this case final opening direction is left/ccw. 4R-3L-2R-L.

PS: It always hurts to see a wet safe.

[matchframe]

Does the dial spin easily in both directions?

your handle is broken and missing the other half.. it should turn counter clock wise to open the door.

The dial spins freely both directions.

I think the handle was parted out so the other safes he sold had better handles. Since they did not know the combo to this one they took the good handles. I need to find replacement handles. Where should I look for some?

The lock is probably one with a spring loaded flipper fence, e.g. a KCB-107. In this case final opening direction is left/ccw. 4R-3L-2R-L.

PS: It always hurts to see a wet safe.

I dried it quickly right after I took this picture. We did not know it was going to rain that day. It was in the drizzling rain for about 10 minutes right as we approached home.

I will try the default numbers with the 4R-3L-2R-L when I get home this afternoon.

Thanks!

BTW, here is the inside door of my other safe:
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[MartinHewitt]

A beautiful safe in great condition!

PS: I think your Postal Office safe was the precursor model for the first GSA government safes. There is a later model from the 50s/60s which had the manipulation resistant Mosler locks.

[matchframe]

I tried some of the default combinations when I got home. When I did 25R x4, 50L x3, 25R x2 then 0L the dial clicks. The handle does not move to open the safe however. After the click and I turn the knob right, it stops at 12 and will not go any further. Only way to get out of that is if I turn the knob left past 10 then it frees up.

I uploaded a short video of going to 0 on the youtube link below:

[MartinHewitt]

The stopping of the dial is usual a good sign. I think your lock is open. I don't know how lug doors are used.

[matchframe]

The stopping of the dial is usual a good sign. I think your lock is open. I don't know how lug doors are used.

Do you think the door or mechanism is stuck somehow?

I sprayed Liquid Wrench all around the door and where the mechanism should turn. Maybe sitting overnight will loosen it up if that is what the hold up is.

[Squelchtone]

This looks very promising. When you dial the combination and then get it to click, and keep turning until the dial stops at around 12-15, leave the dial in the fully stopped position, even if you have to hold it with one hand where it fully stops turning, then do you have any sort of cheater pipe you could slip onto the broken handle to give you maybe 12-18 inches of better grip/leverage? try turning CCW (lefty loosey) I *think* you'll see the central part where the combination wheel is turning and where the two red dashes are should separate.

Did you spray just the outer part of where the door meets the safe or the circle around the dial and 4 slotted screws as well?

Thanks for posting the video, that helps a lot!

Squelchtone

[MartinHewitt]

Maybe the lock bolt isn't yet retracted. The bolt blocking the door movement is directly connected to the lock bolt. I would expect some noticeable resistance. You could try to turn it with slightly more force to the left. (Only slightly! Excessive force has the chance to make things much worse.) You could also tap with a rubber mallet to loosen things up while you turn the dial.

[matchframe]

This looks very promising. When you dial the combination and then get it to click, and keep turning until the dial stops at around 12-15, leave the dial in the fully stopped position, even if you have to hold it with one hand where it fully stops turning, then do you have any sort of cheater pipe you could slip onto the broken handle to give you maybe 12-18 inches of better grip/leverage? try turning CCW (lefty loosey) I *think* you'll see the central part where the combination wheel is turning and where the two red dashes are should separate.

Did you spray just the outer part of where the door meets the safe or the circle around the dial and 4 slotted screws as well?

Thanks for posting the video, that helps a lot!

Squelchtone

I sprayed around the circle between the red lines. I sprayed it around that entire circle.

[matchframe]

Maybe the lock bolt isn't yet retracted. The bolt blocking the door movement is directly connected to the lock bolt. I would expect some noticeable resistance. You could try to turn it with slightly more force to the left. (Only slightly! Excessive force has the chance to make things much worse.) You could also tap with a rubber mallet to loosen things up while you turn the dial.

I will do that.

Thanks!

[Squelchtone]

Maybe the lock bolt isn't yet retracted. The bolt blocking the door movement is directly connected to the lock bolt. I would expect some noticeable resistance. You could try to turn it with slightly more force to the left. (Only slightly! Excessive force has the chance to make things much worse.) You could also tap with a rubber mallet to loosen things up while you turn the dial.

I will do that.

Thanks!

You know, it might be good to turn the handle Clockwise to relieve and binding pressure on the bolt, then dial the combo and as said above, turn until dial stops around 12 but keep tuning Left with a little more torque on the dial to get the bolt to retract. Think about the deadbolt on your home door, if the bolt is dragging in the door jamb strike plate, it's harder to open the deadbolt.. push or pull the your house door a little and the bolt glides effortlessly.

Good luck!
Squelchtone

[L4R3L2]

In case the above techniques don't get it open on their own, you could try using a deadblow hammer around the edges of the door to vibrate loose any stubborn corrosion or gummed up oil.

You should try to get it open ASAP, in case any water wicked between the door and jamb. These surfaces are not plated (to the best of my knowledge), and it takes very little moisture to start the rusting process. Maybe some water-displacing solvent like WD-40 may be in order. This is about the only type of situation I'd recommend using WD-40 around locks or mechanical parts.

[matchframe]

It is OPEN!!

The combo was one of the defaults.

I removed the old handle and screw stud since it was bent. Put a new screw stud in and found two handles I had in an old audio kit for boom mics. I dialed the combo, then tapped around the round part of the door that spins with a rubber hammer. I then held pressure on the lower handle and hit the top handle with my hand. The lug slowly started to turn. Once I opened it all that was in there was an old rubber band and a paper clip.

Thanks for all of your help here! It really helped!!

Now I need to work on my old Hall safe since it went under water in the Harvey flood. I am confident I can get that safe back in working order.

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