Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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i too aquired a cary safe sn 38140,there is a 32digit " slop" between turning wheel pacs either left or right no matter where i stop rotating the dial, there are strange clicks or rattles at repeating points, if I torque the lever cw the resistance changes on dial rotation, at some points, the dial locks to +/- 2 digits, some sites say start combo ccw, others say start combo cw.can any one confirm which way to start a combo?
Each safe has it's own story, so I moved your reply to it's very own thread.
Do you have any photos you could share of your specific Cary safe? It might help us give you the most accurate information as there were so many models and versions over the years.
To upload a photo: go to imgur.com, click "New post" at the top Select a photo from your computer or phone and upload it (you may need to watch an ad since imgur.com is free) click the Hidden button on the right then click Copy, and paste the link here in your reply.
That's an excellent close up of the dial, but it will help us even more if we can see the entire safe. The features on it will help us identify the model so we tell you the proper instructions for it.
Here's an example of the kind of photo that is very helpful as it shows the entire box, the door, the handle and dial and how close they are to each other and where they are on the door, the shape of the hinges, finials, and the shape of the wheel brackets.
Is your starting point that you have the combination but not sure how to dial it or do you not have a combination and wish to turn the dial and attempt to crack the safe by trying out different numbers and feeling and listening for things?
I have twisted the dial to the point my finger is black from brass rubbing, i can't feel or hear any contact points left or right, if it is a C5 lock, direct entry, does it even have a fence system as a direct entry safe?" i believe i can hear 3 ticks while resetting all wheel pacs to the left.sometimes rotation shows very little resistance in one direction other times it almost takes two hands to turn the dial, minutes later the dial turns freely in both directions would a safe this old have a relocker so I'll never open it? the safe does not look damaged other than surface rust. some dial numbers have a definet tick in either cw or ccw. some numbers show a zero resistance as they are passed by, with a metallic click. the safe looks like the safe moose576 has, another cary safe on on line has a C3 lock but looks identical to mine... driven me buggy! radioray
radioray134 wrote:I have twisted the dial to the point my finger is black from brass rubbing, i can't feel or hear any contact points left or right, if it is a C5 lock, direct entry, does it even have a fence system as a direct entry safe?" i believe i can hear 3 ticks while resetting all wheel pacs to the left.sometimes rotation shows very little resistance in one direction other times it almost takes two hands to turn the dial, minutes later the dial turns freely in both directions would a safe this old have a relocker so I'll never open it? the safe does not look damaged other than surface rust. some dial numbers have a definet tick in either cw or ccw. some numbers show a zero resistance as they are passed by, with a metallic click. the safe looks like the safe moose576 has, another cary safe on on line has a C3 lock but looks identical to mine... driven me buggy! radioray
There wont be contact points on this lock. it is a direct entry C-5. There is no fence they way a fence drops into the gates via a lever arm. No locker on this model
Here's what your lock looks like on the inside.
Yellow: You have a driver, this yellow wheel is linked to the dial on the outside. You turn dial, the driver turns immediately the same number of degrees as the dial outside the safe, Notice the false gates with yellow arrow pointing to one of the false gates meant to stop you from feeling out where the true gate is.. true gate should be lined up with the direct entry tail piece when dial is at 40.
Teal: Wheel pack remove from door exposing the yellow drive cam (some safe men call this a "curb") in teal is at bottom of photo, you can see three wheels, with their gates almost aligned.
Red: direct entry tail piece is part of the bolt work plate, notice one of the door bolts is visible on the right
Purple: The handle is attached with that hex nut to that cam inside the safe. This is how the motion of the handle makes the red plate move left and right which pushes the tail piece into the wheel gates and retracts the red bolt if the tail piece can enter the 3 teal wheels' gates and yellow driver's gate.
White arrows show how the parts move left or right / around an axis.
tape or zip tie a laser pointer to the handle and point it towards the floor or ceiling. turn the dial 3times around past 40 and stop on 40 the 4th time around. try to turn the handle clockwise rotation which means the bottom of the handle to the left.
hold the handle with turning pressure against the handle, and mark on the floor or ceiling where the laser dot points to. this will be your reference position.
The next step, and I'm going to over simplify it for the sake of brevity... is to do this test for every number around the dial / around the teal color wheel pack, while turning the yellow driver wheel back to 40 each time. Mark where laser dot is pointing, and then keep incrementing around the teal wheels until you have gone around one revolution.
With any luck, one or two positions should have had the red laser dot further from the reference dot than the others. why/how does this work? If the handle can turn further at certain numbers around the dial, which makes the red laser dot show up further away from the handle at rest position, this means the tail piece is entering deeper into the wheel pack which means it may be entering into some real gates. Align 3 real gates, and the driver wheel, and the safe is open. All we are doing is turning the dial a little, testing the current location on the dial, turning the dial some more to a new location, testing that. I know, it's easier said then done.
I may need to rewrite this.. it makes sense in my head, but I'm taking some liberties and shortcuts with the details that you may need to actually do this.
WIsh I could shoot a video show this in action..
this will have to do: the key in this video is your handle.
I've gone thru over 200 possible combos,(6 ways each) I'm now wondering if the forth number may not be 40? several others have mentioned their" last number" could be 00 or 50. is there a way to confirm that the drive cam is set to 40 as the last number, can testing for more movement of the lever with a direct drive lock be effective to confirm that number. radioray
If you turn the handle clockwise you should be able to catch the dial in ten places, when you turn it, so that you need to turn the handle back to be able to turn further again. Nine of them are so called false gates. One is the true gate. From photos I think the drive cam can also be turned around by 180°, i.e. by 50 numbers, which would make the 40 a 90. Perhaps you can find a difference in the width of these ten places. Often the true gate is wider than the false gates.
I've now tried 0ver 300 combos times 6 using the 6 possible variations of each set of #s. it feels like the # 50 is a larger"gate" i due feel 9 other different gates? which seem a bit narrower, i tried using an LED at 20 feet, the light striking the graph is fuzzy at that length, so it is not possible to see a variation in depth change. if it is the last thing i do, i'm gonna crack it.....radioray
I'm now over 600 possible combos (no luck hi hi),can anyone explain what is the 32 count loose area between any LH point and when the dial is reversed,toward a RH rotation it has only a slight resistance an a slight tick or metallic rattle just before the LH end of this 32 count area frazzled radioray134
radioray134 wrote:I'm now over 600 possible combos (no luck hi hi),can anyone explain what is the 32 count loose area between any LH point and when the dial is reversed,toward a RH rotation it has only a slight resistance an a slight tick or metallic rattle just before the LH end of this 32 count area frazzled radioray134
Sounds like you are rotating dial in the Left direction, then you stop and turn the dial Right and feel only slight resistance? That's because when you change direction, you are no longer turning all the wheels that the drive cam has picked up, and only the drive cam is turning, until it goes around far enough to pick up the 3rd combination wheel. If you keep turning, you'll pick up the 2nd wheel and if you keep turning you'll pick up the 1st number of the combination wheel and should feel a significant amount of resistance. If you suddenly change direction, the dial will turn the spindle going through the door, which will in turn only turn the drive cam for x degrees until the drive cam pin engages the wheel again.
Watch the beginning of this video of a simple safe lock, you can see the drive cam turning until it is about to pick up the next wheel.
This video shows the drive cam turning easily until it picks up the wheel
update on my gary safe. I have identified 9 "false gates" and there are it appears 10 narrow {ie} 3 digits areas between the false gates. Im still puzzled at almost no friction with clockwise rotation yet signification friction ccw. most of that tightness is around the 60's. continued ccw rotation frees somewhat after several turns. beginning to think I need a crook to crack this sucker ! radioray
