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HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
Forum rules
You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.

Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.

If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.

HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby femurat » 22 Dec 2020 8:48

Here is a copy of my "HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation" tutorial. Now that safe lock manipulation discussion is allowed in the open forum, here's a copy for you, that have an old mechanical combination lock to open and are willing to spend days learning. Yes, you'll spend days learning, not hours. And the result is not guaranteed!

---

A whole book isn't enough to cover all you need to know to learn manipulation. I'll try to explain how to start, based on my own experience.

You're going to work on your lock for many hours, so make a small investment and buy a good one.
A too worn, dirt, damaged or bad mounted lock will give you troubles and frustration. You may fail even if you're doing it right.
I suggest to buy a used combo lock from a fellow member of the forum, here or on KP, or from a trusted ebay seller. A brand new lock would be perfect, but obviously it's much more expensive.
Getting a change key is highly recommended, otherwise your lock will be usable just once: it's not fun to look for a combo you already know.
I'm not a big fan of cutaways in general, and even in this case you won't need one. If you remove the back cover you can examine the inner parts interacts while you move the dial, that's enough. And you only need to undo 2 screws...

Usually you get a lock that has been removed from a safe, so you'll need to mount it on a stand. If you're lucky enough to have a real safe skip this part.
I use a wooden stand made from two assembled pieces of wood, one 15x15 cm and one 10x15 cm. The width of the wood depends on spindle length.
To mount the lock you can follow installation instructions from the manufacturer website, for example (edit: removed dead link).

You should build something like this.

Image

Image

Before starting your manipulation, make sure you've understood how to dial a combination and how a lock works. It's very important to know what's happening inside the lock while you move the dial. It's impossible to hack something you don't fully understand.
The theory behind manipulation is that the wheels are not perfect, so every time the gate of the biggest wheel is under the fence, the nose can enter a bit more in the cam, and the contact area will be smaller. Hence you can identify the biggest wheel gate position. Then you should find out which wheel was indicating. Now you have one of the combination numbers. Repeat the process until the lock is open. If you're interested in learning more, I suggest you to carefully read Safecracking for the computer scientist.

I guess you're a bit lazy, so I'll try to guide you trough your first manipulation experience.

First of all you should look for the 2 contact points. Usually every lock has them at the same numbers, but don't count on this. Turn the dial left and right and try to identify the 2 numbers where the fence start touching the cam. You don't need to be very precise, the closest whole number is enough.
I've made 2 red dots to help you identify these points. The first time it could be useful to look for the contact points with the back of the lock removed, so you can see and understand what's happening. After a few minutes you'll learn to recognize these points very well even with a mounted lock.

Image

Now you're ready to count the number of wheels in the lock. To do so turn the dial at least 4 times to a number far away from contact points area. Usually 50 is the perfect choice. Then change direction and count the number of wheels you'll pick up. You should feel a small click and some more resistance offered by the newly picked up wheel every time you pass at the number you have left them, 50 in this example. Once you have picked up all the wheels, passing at 50 would give no more feedback.

It's time to start checking contact points and log them on a graph. We are going to check differences in contact points every 2,5 numbers, while rotating all the wheels together, and mark the corresponding points on our first graph.
There are many different templates to draw your graph on, there are specialized software to assist you in this very simple task. Usually I just grab a few sheets of graph paper and draw my own. This is an example of the first graph I made to open a 3 wheels lock, similar to the one you see above. It was a Sargent & Greenleaf 6725 with 3 wheels.

Image

First of all, you need to write the numbers on the top, from 0 to 100 in 10 increments is enough. Then you should write the numbers on the left. These are the left and right contact points, and a few adjacent numbers. In this example the contact points were at 6 for the Left contact point, and between 12 and 13 for the Right contact point.
The contact points reading requires good light, concentration, and precision. We are going to notice 1/10 number differences, so try to be very precise in your readings.

We could start by rotating the dial Right 4 complete turns, so we are sure we are moving all the wheels, and stop at 0.
Now we have all the wheels at 0, so we can rotate the dial back to check contact points: turn left until the dial is between 6 and 12, then try to move it back and forth to check where the fence touches the cam and exits the contact area. You'll find 2 numbers. I found 5,8 and 12,5, so I made 2 corresponding dots on my graph.

Then you should rotate Right until you reach the wheels you left at 0 and move them 2,5 numbers Right, to 97,5 in this case.
In theory you'll need to make 4 full turns to accomplish this. In practice, since we know where the wheels are, you can simply turn 1 time only, until you touch the wheels. You'll feel them being picked up by the dial, and move them 2,5 numbers Right. We have just saved a lot of time and turns.
Now rotate the dial Left to reach the contact area and carefully read contact points. I got 5,9 and 12,6. Mark your points on the graph.

Continue your readings every 2,5 numbers until you reach 0. You'll end up with your first graph.

Now that you have completed your readings, you should look for some narrow areas in the graph, these narrow areas represent the wheel gates. I clearly see one at 50 in my graph. If you have more than one narrow area, choose the smallest one, the one with steepest borders, just a few numbers wide, which can resemble a gate.

We just checked every 2,5 numbers to speed up the process, so now we should amplify our indications by reading contact points at every number around our newly found gate.
Prepare a small graph by writing at least 5 numbers before and after our gate. You can see the one I made on the bottom part of the page. Write down contact numbers also.
Turn all the wheels Right and stop 5 numbers before your gate. I stopped at 55: since we are reading Right, 55 is found before 50.
Read contact points and mark them on the graph. Then proceed with 54 and so on. When you have drawn the small graph, you should see a distinct narrow area. This is the gate, mark its centre, it's one of your combination numbers!

I got 51 in my example, so I knew 51 was one of my combination numbers, but which one? 51-x-x, x-51-x, or x-x-51?
You'll find out this by trial and error: dial some test combinations, check contact points with each one, and you'll identify which wheel that number belongs to.
Choose a high test number, by adding 10 to yours, and a low test number, by subtracting 10 to yours.
Dial the 3 possible combinations with your number on 2 wheels and the high test number on another wheel. Check contact points to see which wheel, if on a wrong number, changes the contact area the most. This is the wheel with the gate you've found.
To double check, do the same with the low test number.
To avoid confusion, I found useful to fill in a template from The National Locksmith Guide To Manipulation.

In my example I have 51, so my test numbers are 41 and 61.
I've dialled 41-51-51, 51-41-51 and 51-51-41. The results were uncertain: as you can see on the left part of the schema attached below, I got the same variations on second and third wheels.
Then I dialled 61-51-51, 51-61-51 and 51-51-61. I could clearly see that if the third wheel was far from 51, the contact area was increased a lot.
Hence I found out that my combination was x-x-51.

Image

By now you should have found one of your combination numbers, so you should be very proud of yourself.

We have found our first number, the most difficult part. Now we just need the others two and we have done our job.
We are going to repeat the first test to look for another gate, but instead of moving all the wheels together, we'll use the known number on its wheel and test the others.
The process is almost the same. The only difference is that we need to dial a two numbers combo instead of moving all the wheels together (in the previous example we dialled a one number combo).

In my case I had 51 on wheel number 3, so I've checked wheels 1 and 2 Around Left, and kept wheel 3 at Right 51.
In order to efficiently accomplish this task, I started with 4 full turns Left and stopped at 50. Then turned Right one turn plus one number, to put wheel three at 51. Then went left to check contact points.
Next step was to turn left, pick up wheel three at 51 and continue to turn, picking up wheels 1 and 2 at 50 and move them 2,5 numbers forward, to 47,5. Then made one turn Right to pick up wheel three and moved it to 51. Then checked contact points.
If you don't want to think about how to efficiently move the wheels, you're welcome to make many more turns and waste much more time.
This is not a big deal during your first experience, but it will become a huge waste of time every time you try to manipulate a lock.

Image

As you can see in graph number two, I got more than one narrow area. I decided to amplify all the possible gates and made an accurate reading of the narrow areas (graphs on the bottom of the page).
I spent a lot of time in this process, but since I had no evidence of the gate position, I had to do so. No guessing allowed while you manipulate.
By analysing the graphs, I choose 11 as gate centre. Look at its shape: it's steep and resembles a gate. The area around 35 is wider and has high and low points. The area around 60 is too wide and smooth to indicate a gate.

Then I had to check which wheel, between one and two, had the gate at 11. As I did before, I tried a high and a low test numbers to see which wheel, if moved from its gate, would have made the contact points wider. My high test combos were 21-11-51 and 11-21-51. My low test combos 1-11-51 and 11-1-51. I found out the gate at 11 was on wheel one. So my combo was 11-x-51.

Once you have two out of three numbers, it's quicker to brute force the last number rather than reading the contact points to draw a graph. So just dial all the combos, with 2,5 step increments, to open the lock. My lock opened when wheel 2 was at 32,5. The emotion you feel when the fence enters the gate it's like picking a hundred of locks! :cool:
To get the actual combo I tried 11-32-51 and it didn't work. Then I tried 11-33-51, it was the working combo :mrgreen:

Remember, the most important things are: patience, precision, practice.

Good luck ;)
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby Black85vette » 22 Dec 2020 10:27

Awesome. Totally new subject for me and interesting to get an overview of the process. Glad it could be posted.
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby stratmando » 22 Dec 2020 12:49

Dug out my 6730, good timing, saw where someone said, have a friend set the Combo to numbers dividable by 5, I was thinking, how about dividable by 20(20,40,60,80,0) for combo. Then maybe by 5's. Is this a bad Idea? Seems like it would speed up learning the graphing process.

2nd Part of Question, say you lost track of last Combo dialed to open. Saw 1 guy on YouTube, saying don't leave in day mode, and showed working out combination backwards,(determine combo from open condition). Forget if he got all numbers, or just last one or 2. Have gone too far in the past, went back til wheel made contact, move wheel a little(1 or 2 numbers), if not, move a little more, and so on til open.
Any Input appreciated

Plan on making it a Cutaway later today.
Removing Wheels and fence to keep filings out. Any input on cutting away?
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby MartinHewitt » 22 Dec 2020 13:34

I think it is a great idea to allow the discussion of manipulation here. It is a hobby providing a lot of physical distancing from other people.

I don't think it is a good idea to set a combination dividable by 20. With getting just the CPs at 0, 20, 40, ... you will get no idea how the lock behaves for a normal manipulation. To learn how a lock behaves you need to do your normal stepping. With all the standard work to do you can as well use a real combination and get the warm feeling in your belly when the lock opens.

If you lost track in your manipulation you really should dial the full combination again. If you make an error in your recovery operation you will lose much more time and with a simple dialling sequence.
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby femurat » 22 Dec 2020 13:35

Thank you Black85vette. Feel free to ask questions here.

stratmando wrote:Plan on making it a Cutaway later today.
Removing Wheels and fence to keep filings out. Any input on cutting away?


Don't do it! You don't need a cut away. Unscrew the back plate and observe the wheels. A mirror could help.
Talk to you later about the rest.

Cheers :)
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby MartinHewitt » 22 Dec 2020 15:18

femurat wrote:Don't do it!

Femurat has a good advise. A cutaway is really only useful for showing friends how the lock works.
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby stratmando » 22 Dec 2020 16:39

Didn't do it yet, just thought as I'm dialing the wheels and seeing the number, and the contact point and contact point change, it might help. I would easily see the different contact points, with one or more wheels with the fence over gates. Then Determine which wheel is which. Then which Order. Their is a Lot of Info out there. Trying to sort out the Good Stuff.
Will see what I can do with a Mirror. Tough to get a good spot, Have an Endoscope think I would try, as Also want to use the Endoscope for Change hole Determination.
Did do through change hole practicing, Didn't Realize or figure yet to use the Gates to align, I did with the Key Change holes, their are holes on each side of Key change hole letting you know Change hole is coming. It took a while, I will go back to change hole after tinkering with graphing. Using the Gates is a No Brainer, missed it. Training an no training can get different results.
Another Example was when I first made Keys for locks with no keys, I would use a hook and 1 by 1 push a pin up to shear line, slide shim forward, repeat.
Years Later, Locksmith Buddy showed me to use a blank an push shim forward, as you remove a blank key, which goes past all Shear lines. Live and Learn

"Life's Tough, It's Tougher when You're Stupid"
John Wayne
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby L4R3L2 » 22 Dec 2020 17:06

femurat wrote:Now that safe lock manipulation discussion is allowed in the open forum,...


So, is this official, as per the rules? I was wondering why Squelchtone gave manipulation guidance in a recent thread.
Thanks for posting.

One should note, for those new to this, that on many locks the bolt will not retract with the back cover removed.
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby MartinHewitt » 22 Dec 2020 17:26

It is possible to remove the cover and have a look there. It is important to understand how it works. After that it is IMHO not important any more to look inside until you get a lock with a different mechanism. I think for the beginning the torque should be high. Then you can feel all wheel pickups easily. It is like looking inside with your fingers instead of your eyes. I don't think knowing the numbers while doing a graph is not helpful. Then the result is probably what was expected and not what it really is.
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby stratmando » 22 Dec 2020 21:08

Familiar with the Relocker, want to do with cover on, look through change hole, What I was Saying, I was looking to line up wheel change key holes. Sure easier aligning gates. LOTS more visibility.
Right a couple teeth on tensioner? I Imagine A Safe tech would loosen to improve their/your skills, touch.
Will take photo before changing tensioner.
Femurat will keep lock like it is. No Cutaway. Thanks
For myself. Before Graphing, I want to see contact points with fence over no gates, over wheel 1 gate, over wheel gate 2, over 3, over 1 and 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3.
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby edocdab » 25 Dec 2020 6:09

Femurat, that is quite a clear overview of manipulation! I opened my only safe lock based on the excellent series safecracking for everyone on youtube, but your text is quicker to read and easier to navigate 8)

There are some minor things that can be perhaps added (correct me if I am wrong): A gate is usually around 2.5 number wide, that's why you dial in 2.5 increments and look for single dots that come closer to each other in the graph. When detailing your graph you want to literally see the cut out shape of the wheel in the graph, hence the sharp edges and width.

Without cover the bolt might not retract on your lock. When you hear the Cachunk sound, check the lock from the back. Probably the combination was found but the bolt is blocked by a lever that "detects'" the missing cover. Push the lever to retract the bolt.

Last addition that I can think of which could be useful: Turn left means turn counter clockwise.

As you are an expert and I am not, I'll leave the judgement to you :mrgreen:

Thanks for the great write-up. Great that manipulation discussion is allowed now and merry Christmas to all of you :D
My youtube channel: https://youtube.com/c/edocdab
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby sign216 » 25 Dec 2020 6:22

I applaud allowing manipulation in the open side of the forum. It'll attract more people to the hobby. Criminals will use a blunt force attack (just like the old days) and espionage agents have professional training from their own office.

So the open discussion is "no harm, no foul."

Joe
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby stratmando » 28 Dec 2020 8:22

sign216 wrote:I applaud allowing manipulation in the open side of the forum. It'll attract more people to the hobby. Criminals will use a blunt force attack (just like the old days) and espionage agents have professional training from their own office.

So the open discussion is "no harm, no foul."

Joe


I see "Brute Force" of having 2 Meanings by the way people use it.
One by Physical Destruction, Other, by trying all combinations with an unknown wheel. Is it used for both? Or is it sometimes used wrong? Thanks
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby edocdab » 29 Dec 2020 11:27

I'm not a native speaker but I recognize both meanings indeed.
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Re: HOW TO - Getting Started with Manipulation

Postby femurat » 1 Feb 2021 9:14

It's been a while since I last updated this thread, sorry. Let's try to keep up with all the replies...

L4R3L2 wrote:
femurat wrote:Now that safe lock manipulation discussion is allowed in the open forum,...


So, is this official, as per the rules?


Yes, it's official. If you are posting a message, you can see the red text "Forum rules" on top of the page. It says "Safe manipulation is allowed...".

stratmando wrote:I see "Brute Force" of having 2 Meanings by the way people use it.
One by Physical Destruction, Other, by trying all combinations with an unknown wheel.


I mean try all the possible combinations. Sometimes in 2 increments, others in 1. It depends on the lock tolerances. I once failed to open a lock because I tried every 2 increments. I still feel dumb when I think about it. Imagine having found two numbers of the combination and not being able to open the lock for this very reason. Never more!

edocdab wrote:A gate is usually around 2.5 number wide, that's why you dial in 2.5 increments


That's true. I now check every 2 increments. It takes a little longer but I'm more likely to see all the possible indications I can get. All your other considerations are true also.

Now I want to push you all a little more. Let's try a little exercise together.
Let's say that I have a standard S&G 3 wheels combo lock. Just for a change I try an All wheels Right approach, and check the Right contact point only. I find two low spots or potential gates at 69 and 33.

How would you proceed?

Let's try to minimize the time spent dialing. So for example, let's optimize the high-low tests and let's minimize wheels movements.
I'm not saying I have the correct answer. I can only tell you what I did. See you tomorrow, or the day after, so I don't prevent you from thinking about it.

Cheers :)
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