US Navy WWII Mosler?

[Luganville]

Hi All,

First time in the forum so please be gentle.

I am from the South Pacific WWII Museum in Luganville on the island of Espiritu Santo in Vanuatu.

We are trying to identify a vault door from World War II. It appears to be a Mosler bank vault door. As the Mosler company no longer exists, I have to find another way to confirm its identity.

During WWII when the country was called New Hebrides, Santo was the site of the largest military base in the South Pacific - in fact it was where the book 'South Pacific' was written! As there were hundreds of thousands of US service personnel either based there or transiting through, US Navy Seabees built a bank vault around 1942/43 to hold all the cash necessary to pay the personnel.

As I said, the vault door appears to be a Mosler but we just don't know. We removed it out of the vault a couple of months ago as the vault was being demolished - which is a huge shame - but we managed to secure the door for our small museum. Is anyone able to help us identify it?

I have attached photos of the door (front and back), and a couple of detail shots.

James.

[MartinHewitt]

Hi James,

It looks different from all Moslers that I found. The Moslers all have a wheel with handles and the transfer of force from the wheel to the pressure bars is also quite different. The lock was either a Mosler or a Yale, but they are basically identical and posibly all were made by Yale. The Yale locks were used by a lot of companies, but all doors that I found have different wheels and transfer mechanisms. You could ask at https://www.antique-locks.com/ .

[GWiens2001]

It reminds me of a Sargent & Greenleaf vault door I have seen here in Tucson. Maybe a week from Monday I can head over there and snap a picture for comparison. Monday is my normal day off, but this coming Monday is a holiday, so the place may not be open.

The owner of the door is a very experienced safe tech and collector, so he may know what yours is. Will keep you informed, if I remember to get over there.

Gordon

[Squelchtone]

Looks a lot like this one

https://www.ebayshopkorea.com/itm/Used-Antique-Mosler-vault-doortrim--Mosler-Safe-C/393458456236

[Luganville]

Hi James,

It looks different from all Moslers that I found. The Moslers all have a wheel with handles and the transfer of force from the wheel to the pressure bars is also quite different. The lock was either a Mosler or a Yale, but they are basically identical and posibly all were made by Yale. The Yale locks were used by a lot of companies, but all doors that I found have different wheels and transfer mechanisms. You could ask at https://www.antique-locks.com/ .

We only assumed it was a Mosler as there were many similarities with other Mosler safes and vault doors, so you could be right. antiquelocks.com proved to be a dead end. The moderator Brian, was going to ask in his forums, so that I wouldn't have to pay the rather large member joining fee. However, he never did and after numerous emails to him, I haven't got an answer.

[Luganville]

It reminds me of a Sargent & Greenleaf vault door I have seen here in Tucson. Maybe a week from Monday I can head over there and snap a picture for comparison. Monday is my normal day off, but this coming Monday is a holiday, so the place may not be open.

The owner of the door is a very experienced safe tech and collector, so he may know what yours is. Will keep you informed, if I remember to get over there.

Gordon

Gordon, that would be absolutely brilliant if you could take a photo for me as well as ask the owner. He may know something! You have no idea how many vault door manufacturers, lock companies, safe companies, etc. I've tried asking and not got one reply from anyone! So anythig n you can find out would be greatly appreciated.

[Luganville]

Looks a lot like this one

https://www.ebayshopkorea.com/itm/Used-Antique-Mosler-vault-doortrim--Mosler-Safe-C/393458456236

It does and many other Mosler vaults I've found. The hinging mechanism is very similar although the one on eBay has two combination locks and ours has one. Plus the obvious wheel differences. But the one you have found looks like a slightly newer model, so it could be based on a previous one? The mystery continues. Thanks.

[Squelchtone]

Hi James,

It looks different from all Moslers that I found. The Moslers all have a wheel with handles and the transfer of force from the wheel to the pressure bars is also quite different. The lock was either a Mosler or a Yale, but they are basically identical and posibly all were made by Yale. The Yale locks were used by a lot of companies, but all doors that I found have different wheels and transfer mechanisms. You could ask at https://www.antique-locks.com/ .

We only assumed it was a Mosler as there were many similarities with other Mosler safes and vault doors, so you could be right. antiquelocks.com proved to be a dead end. The moderator Brian, was going to ask in his forums, so that I wouldn't have to pay the rather large member joining fee. However, he never did and after numerous emails to him, I haven't got an answer.

There is a group of Safe and Vault Collectors on Facebook who might be able to tell you more, you can join the group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/436191493400470/about

[Luganville]

Hi James,

There is a group of Safe and Vault Collectors on Facebook who might be able to tell you more, you can join the group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/436191493400470/about

Thanks heaps! Going over there now to join.

[GWiens2001]

It is looking more and more like a Mosler, but will check as mentioned above.

Gordon

[Luganville]

After a bit more digging around and research about the dial itself, I've found two examples of what appears to be the correct dial. One is branded with Diebold the other has no brand on it. Plus I've included another pic of our vault dial from an another angle and a dial with the screw in the top. So we're still left with Mosler, Yale or Diebold. But I think Yale is out and Diebold might be closer?


The Museum dial taken on an angle


A screw in the top of this Diebold dial matches ours, but the dial itself is of a different design. Not sure who else put screws in the top of their dials?


What appears to be a perfect Diebold match?


An unknown safe with what appears to be a matching dial, but the dial has no branding.


A close up of the matching unknown dial.


A close up where you can just see the dial on an angle

[00247]

I think it may very well be a Diebold. Look closely at the hinge design. Moslers tend to have a styled hinge with rounded parts. Here is a similar but different Diebold vault door and a Diebold safe that have hinge designs that look the same.

[Luganville]

Definitely of a very similar hinge design and the actual shapes of the component parts used in the hinges are very similar. Thanks for the pics.

[Luganville]

Well we have got to the bottom of the mystery.

At the suggestion of @Squelchtone, I ended up joining the safes and vault group on Facebook and they have been most helpful. One of their members has identified our lock as a "Mosler #12 indirect drive lock made by Yale for Mosler using the Yale 025 1/2 indirect drive lock design”. You’ll see in the attached pics, the remains of our lock, compared to what it should look like. A perfect match.

As for the vault, that is a Mosler and that was confirmed by none other than Dave McOmie! I’m not kidding.

I found his email address and took a punt and emailed him and sure enough he answered. He sent me two pics of a later model of our vault door and said we’ve definitely got a Mosler. It’s almost identical, particularly the back. The pics are posted here as well. The guy who helped identify the lock couldn’t believe I emailed him. He wrote, “You realize you just emailed God, right? and he wrote back! Now I'm jealous.”

Thanks to everyone for your assistance.


The broken lock on our vault.


A Yale 025 1/2 indirect drive lock.


The later model Mosler vault door front.


The later model Mosler vault door back.

[MartinHewitt]

Great, that you have a final answer. Dave is a nice guy. He would have been my suggestion too, but I didn't want to load stuff onto his shoulders as he probably has enough to do.