Banker's Safe "Hinge Cap" Clarification

[djed]

Hi folks - long time no visit.

I just bought a Halls bankers safe and I'm having trouble with the door (discussion to follow).

Before I go down that road, I was hoping one of you have experience with what I am calling a "hinge cap" to better understand what I might be dealing with.

Can someone take a look at the pictures and tell me what the purpose of the "hinge cap" is for (presumably grease), how to get it out (do I need to raise the door), or anything else I might need to understand about the "hinge cap".

As background, I removed the slotted screw on the right and was able to "shimmy" the hinge cap out a bit until I realized the weight of the door was keiping it in place. I stopped as I wasn't sure if it would compromise the support of the door.

As always, thank you.

David

[MartinHewitt]

I have no idea. Never seen such a hinge here. I am sure 00247 knows what to do. He seems to be more regular on keypicking, but you could send him a message here. I really would like to know more about hinges, but about the hinges I get to meet here.

[00247]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Martin, but I have never seen such a beast. Djed (David) and I correspond occasionally and I see there is an email from him but I will also comment here.

This is a very interesting safe. I love the screw on covers for the hinge bolts, how cool is that? Here is a picture of the whole safe David sent me. Hope he doesn't mind.



Note the handle on the right side. I think that hinge cover should come right out. Perhaps put a floor jack under the door to relieve some pressure to see if that helps. When you need to lift that cover to slide it out that portion under the hinge will start to wedge. My guess is the door hinges have worn down a bit and is binding on the cover. (David mentions some door binding in the email) You will probably need to shim the door up a bit. I would do a close investigation to see where the binding is taking place. If it is binding in the door jamb, confirm it by putting some chalk or maybe some tissue paper in that spot to confirm where the interference is. Look close at the gap around the door. This safe probably has a very tight fitting door. It's not uncommon for tolerances to get out of whack with wear on the hinges. Keep us posted and please start a thread on this safe showing it's features.

[djed]

00247 - thanks for your reply.

I actually did relieve the pressure on the "hinge cap" by jacking up the door slightly with a trolley jack. It only got me the clearance noted in the first picture. I figured my curiousity wasn't worth messing something up so I stopped and put the "hinge cap" back in place.

Let me start a new thread with the door issue but I already stole my daughter's sidewalk chalk and determined the door is binding on the lower step. See the pink chalk in the attached picture.



Dumb question but wouldn't it be easier to take some emery cloth to the offending area? I realize it will impare the fireproof nature of the safe but lifting the door off the hinges is going to be a challenge. I would have to figure out a way to use my engine hoist as a support and a floor jack to lift it off. With that weight it will be DANGEROUS. ... and since it is already in my house and not going anywhere, it's additionally complicated due to logistics.

[00247]

I would work the door up higher to see if the cover will come out. The hinge pins are usually pretty long. Smear a little oil on them when they are exposed. If you have enough clearance around the door then yes you could alter the offending spot. I fully understand the challenge of taking the door off. One thing that comes to mind, could there be a door height adjustment under that cover??? Work the door up a bit more and pull that cover off, problem might be solved. Do ya feel lucky?

[djed]

Do you think I need to unscrew the pressure bar to lift the door? I'm guessing yes.

[GWiens2001]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Martin, but I have never seen such a beast. Djed (David) and I correspond occasionally and I see there is an email from him but I will also comment here.

This is a very interesting safe. I love the screw on covers for the hinge bolts, how cool is that? Here is a picture of the whole safe David sent me. Hope he doesn't mind.



Note the handle on the right side. I think that hinge cover should come right out. Perhaps put a floor jack under the door to relieve some pressure to see if that helps. When you need to lift that cover to slide it out that portion under the hinge will start to wedge. My guess is the door hinges have worn down a bit and is binding on the cover. (David mentions some door binding in the email) You will probably need to shim the door up a bit. I would do a close investigation to see where the binding is taking place. If it is binding in the door jamb, confirm it by putting some chalk or maybe some tissue paper in that spot to confirm where the interference is. Look close at the gap around the door. This safe probably has a very tight fitting door. It's not uncommon for tolerances to get out of whack with wear on the hinges. Keep us posted and please start a thread on this safe showing it's features.

Have posted about a very similar one that I have the desire to restore, but getting hinges made are a problem. Mine have the same hinge cap and dogleg hinge pins. But my hinges cracked/broke. Yours is in much better condition.

Gordon

[Squelchtone]

Is the hinge mounted to the door solid metal with a flat bottom or does it have a recess or hollow pocket underneath? Wondering if you can open the door and then lift out the hinge cap where the cap will lift up into the hollow of the hinge mounted to the door.

[GWiens2001]

Here is the link to mine. The boltwork now works perfectly on mine. All I need is the hinges and I can start prepping the surfaces for filling and painting.

If anyone can recommend someone who can machine a set of hinges for this, I'd like to hear it.

Gordon

[GWiens2001]

Is the hinge mounted to the door solid metal with a flat bottom or does it have a recess or hollow pocket underneath? Wondering if you can open the door and then lift out the hinge cap where the cap will lift up into the hollow of the hinge mounted to the door.

If you are going to try that, I suggest using a floor jack (like used in a car shop) to take the weight off the door before removing the cap. It may be fine without doing so, but better safe than sorry. Your door looks thinner than mine is, and so probably weighs less. But it would still be a substantial amount of metal to have drop on your foot if the metal of the hinge gave way.

Gordon

[Squelchtone]

Here is the link to mine. The boltwork now works perfectly on mine. All I need is the hinges and I can start prepping the surfaces for filling and painting.

If anyone can recommend someone who can machine a set of hinges for this, I'd like to hear it.

Gordon

Thanks for that link GW, I remember when you first brought that safe home.

I just looked up that patent, I wish it showed the details of how that cover comes off, but I think your photos did a great job as well. Very interesting design.

link to the hinge patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US136239A/

If I understand the operation of the door correctly, once the combination is dialed, and the handle thrown to the left, one would then pull the vertical bar handle mounted near the hinges towards their person, and then once the door is not flush with the safe body, by virtue of the spindle inside the hinge allowing for some travel, the person opening the door would then use the turning handle or the vertical bar handle to rotate the door open, am I on the right track?

[GWiens2001]

Yes. You also can use that press bar to push the door fully closed before throwing the bolts to lock the safe.

Gordon

[djed]

If I understand the operation of the door correctly, once the combination is dialed, and the handle thrown to the left, one would then pull the vertical bar handle mounted near the hinges towards their person, and then once the door is not flush with the safe body, by virtue of the spindle inside the hinge allowing for some travel, the person opening the door would then use the turning handle or the vertical bar handle to rotate the door open, am I on the right track?

Squelchtone,

I don't think you can pull the pressure bar without throwing the bolts first (by turning the handle).

David

[djed]

Squelchtone,

Please disregard my last post. I reread your post and you correctly note that the bolts must be thrown before the pressure bare is released.

To rotate / open the safe door, I don’t think you can really pull from the pressure bar - I think you need to pull from the handle that throws the bolts.

Thank you very much for the link to Gordon’s 2017 posts. The posts suggest there really is no purpose to removing what I am calling the hinge caps.

I’ll review some more in the morning.

[MartinHewitt]

Here is the link to mine. The boltwork now works perfectly on mine. All I need is the hinges and I can start prepping the surfaces for filling and painting.

Nice! That was before I started with safes.

How does your borken hinge with the cover work?