Diebold and Kienzle 1870

[Mikey67156]

A mystery!
I've bought a home with quite an an old safe inside.
The safe was purchased at the closure of St. John's College which was in operation in Kansas from 1893-1986. It's a beauty and I'd love to use it for something more than a table, however I'm not willing to have it destroyed. I'd like to tinker with trying to manipulate it myself, but have absolutely no idea where to begin. It sounds like it may be direct entry, but kinda not. I haven't seen any appreciable difference using a laser pointer on the handle, but maybe I'm just starting in the wrong place? For that matter I also don't really find any contact points. It does seem to be a 3 wheel lock. Can anyone point me where to even begin? Dialing direction, possible manipulation strategies?

The dimensions of the cabinet in inches are:
26" tall (33" including casters)
22"wide
22" deep

The lock is 5" from the handle

Photos Here:










Here are the patents listed on the dial.

Aug 16 1870

Nov 26 1867

Feb 19 1867

I found a facebook post with what I believe may be the internals of the same lock
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2771819 ... 675917746/
Internals


If you made it all the way here, thank you for reading!

[MartinHewitt]

A very nice safe indeed! It would be a shame to damage it.

I found only similar locks you found for the Diebold-Kienzles, but they are all on burglary safes and look more expensive. Do you have the patent numbers? The links you sent are dead.

If it is a lock like this you should be able to use the standard manipulation techniques for the commonly called "group 2" locks like the S&G 6730. But before this you should confirm it is this type of lock, e.g. by ruling out direct entry fence locks, and also count the wheels. The lock you showed opens on a right (clockwise) turn. If it has 3 wheels (likely, but possible 4), then the dialling sequence is the same as the modern 6730:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEYjgOFKR1U

[Mikey67156]

Ohh apologies, these links should work better. Thanks for the help, I'll check that video out when I get home!

How about:
1870 US106472 this looks to be the patent issued just before the ubiquitous Eagle 161.
26 Nov 1867 US71373
19 Feb 1867 US62191

If I apply pressure to the handle and turn it stiffens around the number 100, not every time, only when starting with the wheels in a position I haven't really been able to duplicate enough to isolate. I have not been able to find any contact points starting with either AWR or AWL at 100 or 50.

[MartinHewitt]

These links work great!

With a direct entry fence the dial stops dead. With that type of lock and its strange shutter it could be that the handle pushes to bolt work towards the shutter and the shutter pushes the fence lever onto the wheels.

[Mikey67156]

I’m afraid you’re right. So, if I’ve wrapped my head around it completely, the two information pathways that would normally be used are both unavailable, the handle->bolt->dial is blocked by that shutter, and the fence nose hitting contact points can’t happen until the shutter pulls back and lowers it.
I think my next move is to pull the 1871 patent and see if it tells me what problem they were hoping to solve when they went to the Eagle. Will drop any findings here.

Thanks for your help!

[MartinHewitt]

I didn't read the patent yet, but from the lock photo it looks like a normal gravity fence lever and just the blocking of the bolt is unusual.