Maxus Euro cylinder locks?

[Snapdragon]

I am looking to replace the Euro cylinder on my front door, but am pretty much a "lock novice", beyond what I've read up on in the last few days.

I'm aiming for a 3 star, kitemarked lock with key/thumbturn combination.

I have found a "MAXUS X3" that's TS007 3 Star Approved and Kitemarked BS EN 1303, and which is very competitively priced for this 'standard'.

However, I can't find much information about Maxus locks, and they don't seem to be widely available, so am wondering if I should be concerned that it's not actually very good.

Thanks.

[LocksportSouth]

I can't speak for the Maxus, but personally I can recommend the Avocet ABS which you can buy for around £30 to £40 Here and also the Kaba pExtra Guard which you can buy for around the £30 mark from Here. I have used both and can vouch for them; they're both BS:TS007 3 Star rated and the ABS also carries the "Sold Secure - Diamond" rating.

I can also recommend the Brisant Ultion, which I also own but do not have in use. It's by the same guy who made the Avocet ABS and is also BS:TS007 3-star rated and carries the Sold Secure - Diamond rating as well. You can find out more about them Here. These ones are a little harder to get as they're meant to be stocked and supplied by locksmiths to homeowners, not bought by the general public but I got mine from Here (you'll need to contact them to discuss your needs and get a price; I paid around £40 for mine.

Hope this helps and I apologise if it's not what you're looking for - I personally don't have any experience with the Maxus so hopefully someone else can chime in with advice on that front .

[Snapdragon]

Hi LocksportSouth

Many thanks for such a prompt reply.

There's one thing I don't understand on the page about the Avocet ABS thumbturn:

"ABS thumbturn cylinders SHOULD NEVER be used to operate auto-locking door locks i.e. doors that automatically lock on closure - requiring the key for re-entry."

It may well be my lack of knowledge of locks, but in what way could the ABS thumbturn be "auto-locking"? I don't understand what it means by never using an "ABS thumbturn cylinders ... to operate auto-locking door locks" — how would a cylinder (ie, lock) be used to operate another lock?

On a door fitted with an ABS thumbturn cylinders, wouldn't it require either the thumbturn or key-side to be manually locked?

Or Is the "auto-locking" caution something that I don't need to worry about if the only lock on the door will the the Avocet ABS thumbturn?

Thanks again.

[LocksportSouth]

Basically the way the ABS works is to lock down the cam from the inside of the door, that way even if the cylinder is snapped from the outside (it does have a sacrificial front piece)and the next part of the cylinder in front of the cam is removed, you can't manually actuate the cam from the outside with a screwdriver. The way this works is that the thumbturn on the inside must be pushed in and then turned in order to lock or unlock the lock, and once the deadbolt throws, the thumbturn pops back out, locking the cam.

The problem is, when the thumbturn is in the middle of turning (in it's pushed in state), the key on the outside cannot engage with the cam and actuate it. This isn't a problem on doors with a deadbolt - those doors where, when you go out and shut the door behind you it doesn't lock and you need to turn the key to lock the door - if you insert the key and realise that it won't turn, you just need to open the door again and pop the thumbturn open. Also if your lock doesn't have an internal thumbturn (keys on both sides), it's the key that actuates the lock so again there isn't a problem.

However, some doors with Euro cylinders can have a slam latch - when you shut the door, the latch locks it closed behind you. You can then usually turn the key to engage a deadbolt too, but the idea is that even if you leave the house and just pull the door closed, it will still have some level of security. This is the kind of door that you can lock yourself out of if you leave the key inside the house.

On these doors, if your thumbturn is in the pushed-down (mid-turn) phase and you slam the door closed, the key on the outside will not be able to turn the lock, yet the door will still be locked, so you'll be unable to get in.

If your door is the kind of door that can only be locked from the outside with a key - i.e. it doesn't have a locking latch - you won't have a problem .

[Snapdragon]

Hi LocksportSouth

Many thanks again for such a prompt and detailed reply (this is obviously a great forum).

The problem is, when the thumbturn is in the middle of turning (in it's pushed in state), the key on the outside cannot engage with the cam and actuate it. This isn't a problem on doors with a deadbolt - those doors where, when you go out and shut the door behind you it doesn't lock and you need to turn the key to lock the door - if you insert the key and realise that it won't turn, you just need to open the door again and pop the thumbturn open.

So, just to make sure I don't buy something unsuitable and end up waiting in the rain for an expensive visit from a locksmith — the door I intend to fit it on will only have the Avocet ABS as a lock and requires the handle to be turned to engage the deadbolt and then the lock to be key-operated on the outside to be locked.

Would I therefore be correct that the caution that "ABS thumbturn cylinders SHOULD NEVER be used to operate auto-locking door locks i.e. doors that automatically lock on closure" doesn't apply to my situation?

Thanks yet again.

[LocksportSouth]

No problem

First off I do want to point out that I'm not a locksmith, nor an expert in these locks - I'm just basing my knowledge on the fact that I own and regularly use two of these. In my case at least, the door in question has only a deadbolt and thus does not have this issue. However I take no liability for your purchasing decisions and subsequent stuffed-ness if it goes wrong. Just wanted to get that out of the way .

All that being said, I'm fairly confident in saying that if you have a does that does not lock on a latch - i.e. you cannot pull the door closed and have it lock (requiring the key to get in), then you should be absolutely fine with the Avocet ABS. The worst that can happen is you get outside, realise the key won't turn in the lock, open the door, pop the thumbturn out and close the door and lock it. All uPVC doors that I've used only deadlock however I have heard that there are latch-locking doors that use Euro cylinders so it's worth bearing in mind .

That said, IANAL (I Am Not A Locksmith), so I'll step back and let someone more knowledgeable give you a definite yes or no on that one.

[Snapdragon]

I take no liability for your purchasing decisions and subsequent stuffed-ness if it goes wrong. Just wanted to get that out of the way

Completely understood. Any stupid mistakes I might make will be entirely my own

Thanks for all your help — it's been extremely useful.

(I still need to determine the insurance-acceptability of a thumbturn, even a spring-loaded one, but that's not a lock issue.)

[LocksportSouth]

No problem
BTW, they do make a non-thumbturn version if you prefer which will negate all of those potential problems, provided you're happy to lock/unlock from the inside with a key - Here's the link

[Snapdragon]

I still need to determine the insurance-acceptability of a thumbturn, even a spring-loaded one, but that's not a lock issue.

And that's when I found out that insurance companies know diddly-squat (ie, even less than I do) about locks.

My policy says that I need:

"External Doors: where appropriate
(a) 5 Lever Mortice Deadlocks to British Standard 3621,
(b) mortice security bolts or other key-operated locks to British Standard 3621 in addition to the existing locks or
(c) multi-point locking systems."

So, there is no standard at all specified for the sort of "multi-point locking system" that the majority of modern/new-build houses (in the UK, anyway) come with. It could be a "multi-point locking system" with an absolutely minimal quality lock.

[LocksportSouth]

Yeah, Insurance companies can have some strange ideas - one of the reasons that the Chubb Battleship and Cruiser still get made is because some insurance firms still require a "five-lever lock" - it's like, move with the times, eh? It's rare you see a house here in the UK with a lever mortice lock these days - mostly on back doors or as a secondary lock to a Yale latch on wooden doors, or obviously uPVC and Euro cylinders in most builds. But providing that it won't actually invalidate your insurance it's probably worth going with a BS 3 star rated cylinder anyway - for peace of mind as much as anything .

[Hedgehog]

I'm aiming for a 3 star, kitemarked lock

For future reference, here is a comparison of some of the main anti-snap euro cylinders. The Avocet ABS looks best, but they all appear close.

Also, here is a locksmith blog offering a different opinion, with the Yale Platinum beating the ABS cylinder.