SG Direct Drive vs. Mechanical

[nukezero]

Hi

I am buying a safe for home use, the Hollon TL-15 PM-1814. I was all set on the electronic lock, the S&G Spartan D-drive which is basically the same thing as the Titan D-drive minus some electronic features. However, I read some horrible story about how this mechanism/solenoid failed and caused a safe owner to have to drill his safe opened.

From what I read, the solenoid e-lock was supposed to be more reliable than standard e-locks with motors. But how can something so simple fail so suddenly.

Hollon sells either their Dial with the Big Red dial or the UL listed Group 2M S&G. If I'm going mechanical, which should I choose and should I still consider the D-drive at this point?

[ltdbjd]

I've had electronic safes fail, and I've had mechanical safes fail. Sometimes the armature goes out on the electronic safe locks, sometimes the cover comes loose triggering the internal relocker on the mechanical safe locks, etc. I don't think you'll find a lock or lock type that has never failed.

I can't speak to the Spartan D drive because I'm that familiar with them. Somebody else with more experience with these locks will have to chime in.

On a personal note, I'm glad to see you're going with a TL rated safe. For those who don't know, a TL-15 rated sate is designed to withstand a tool attack by trained attackers for a minimum of 15 minutes. There are longer designations (e.g. 30 and 60 minutes), and there are tools/torch rated and even explosive rated safes. You can find all the juicy details on burglary rated safes under UL Standard 687.

It's amazing how many people buy a "safe" from their local big box or hardware store, without realizing it's not even considered a safe by UL. They see big, shiny bolts and think they are getting a great safe. If they took the inside panel off and looked at the hollow bolts and skimpy connecting brackets, they might rethink how secure it really is. UL calls them "Residential Security Containers (RSC's)," and as a Residential Security Container, they only have to withstand a five minute attack with basic hand tools to gain that designation. They aren't rated on their ability to withstand larger hand tools/pry bars or power tools. RSC's are covered under UL 1037.

[Squelchtone]

Afaik, the S&G 6120 with worm gear drive had issues of the gear stripping out which would lead to drilling or using special tools down the spindle hole in order to manually turn the gear and retract the bolt.

I like the ease of a digital lock, especially when having to get a gun out in a hurry, but I prefer a mechanical S&G Group 2 locks such as the 6730 for quality and reliability.

Squelchtone

[tpark]

Afaik, the S&G 6120 with worm gear drive had issues of the gear stripping out which would lead to drilling or using special tools down the spindle hole in order to manually turn the gear and retract the bolt.

I like the ease of a digital lock, especially when having to get a gun out in a hurry, but I prefer a mechanical S&G Group 2 locks such as the 6730 for quality and reliability.

Squelchtone

One of the things I like about mechanical locks is that you're not trusting that there's no backdoor in the software for the lock. There's no battery to go dead, and the S&G 6730 locks have been around long enough that a properly installed and set up combination lock is unlikely to have problems.

[billdeserthills]

Afaik, the S&G 6120 with worm gear drive had issues of the gear stripping out which would lead to drilling or using special tools down the spindle hole in order to manually turn the gear and retract the bolt.

I like the ease of a digital lock, especially when having to get a gun out in a hurry, but I prefer a mechanical S&G Group 2 locks such as the 6730 for quality and reliability.

Squelchtone

I used to enjoy the ease of pressing a few buttons to unlock my safe, but then Lockmasters came out
with their little black box--I don't enjoy the ease with which that can unlock my safe!

I would likely choose the Big Red mechanical lock, if you won't be in a hurry to open the safe

[nukezero]

The Group 2 S&G is not as good as the Group 2M S&G right? So the only Group2M rated are 6630,6631,6632,6651, and 6530. I don't think they would put a Group 2 lock on a TL safe since it won't pass UL criteria.

Right now i"m leaving towards the mechanical lock. The Big Red lock looks better than the S&G but S&G has been around for a while. The Big Red dials are uglier than the S&G dials.

[billdeserthills]

The Group 2 S&G is not as good as the Group 2M S&G right? So the only Group2M rated are 6630,6631,6632,6651, and 6530. I don't think they would put a Group 2 lock on a TL safe since it won't pass UL criteria.

Right now i"m leaving towards the mechanical lock. The Big Red lock looks better than the S&G but S&G has been around for a while. The Big Red dials are uglier than the S&G dials.

The group 2M lock has 4 wheels, instead of 3 on the 6730 S&G lock

The reason the Big Red dial looks ugly is because it is likely their rubberized dial, much nicer on your fingers for constant use
I have replaced a few+ S&G mechanical locks over the years and they aren't perfect, better than Ilco's mechanical safe locks, I will give them that

The way you dial the safe makes a lot of difference to how long the mechanical lock lasts. People don't realize that all the works of a mech safe lock
depend on a little sliver of brass (in most cases) a spline key. I see future clients spinning their dials all the time and otherwise handling the dial roughly

[ltdbjd]

I don't think they would put a Group 2 lock on a TL safe since it won't pass UL criteria.

Just want to clarify, are you making a statement that a Group 2 lock "won't pass UL criteria," or are you asking if it will? If you are stating that it won't pass UL criteria, have you read UL 687?