Medeco m3 2013

[ARF-GEF]

I had thought this story was too long and boring to write it out here

MBI we come in no small part for such long stories. Especially the younger of us.
It wasn't boring at all.
thanks for writing it!

[MBI]

Wasn't one of the reasons they quit using arx pins due to the fact that the lock technologies tool being unable to work with biaxial? I might be wrong but that sticks out in my mind for some reason.

The tool made by Lock Technologies was keyway-specific. It used an actual Medeco key that was cut down as part of the tool. That was how Medeco was able to successfully sue to stop the manufacture of the tool, because the blanks were still patent protected at the time and they were using them as an integral part of the device. It was never made for Biaxal locks because the lawsuit stopped production of the tool before Biaxial locks were introduced.

After the Lock Technologies tool demonstrated the vulnerability the locks had with the sidebar groove going right to the tip of the pin, Medeco started making medeco pins (on the original style locks) with milled grooves that stopped before it reached the bottom of the pin. That's why on older Medeco locks you can sometimes find either type of pin groove. They didn't call the pins ARX back then, that term was introduced in the 90s. If they had a special name to differentiate them back then I don't know what it was, but for simplicity it seems that most people just call all pins with the closed groove ARX pins, regardless of whether they are the old style pins or Biaxial/m3 pins.

By the time Biaxial came out, they started making pins with grooves that ran the full length of the pin, since they were cheaper to produce that way and there was no commercial tool being produced at that point which exploited the flaw. This was long before the internet so I suspect that knowledge of the exploit wasn't widely known and it wasn't considered a major threat. It wasn't until Falle started producing a tool that exploited it again that they temporarily revived the closed groove pins under the ARX name, which also encompassed some other security improvements as well. The Falle tool was a decoder and not a pick like the Medecoder, but they both exploit the same flaw.

[john5]

As far as I am concerned, Medeco is still up there with Abloy and ABS.

[ARF-GEF]

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

@John5

Im not sure how much you know about these 3 locks but to be honest none of them belong in the same category as each other in my opinion...

Abloy Protec & Protec 2 are point blank unpickable as far as anyone knows and the particular lock format will obviously determine how well they stand up to destructive attacks. They are lightyears ahead of the other 2.
Medeco have been proverbially "Raped". A lot is know about them with many vulnerabilities having been exposed. They are most certainly pickable by people with patience and the skills, but still hard for amateurs.
The ABS lock is from what i have heard a much easier pick than a medeco and in fact most high security locks. They are susceptible to all DE methods as with any Euro cylinder with one exception, lock snapping. Now if thats the only point it has going for it, does it really deserve to be called a high security lock?

just some thoughts...

[huxleypig]

@John5

Im not sure how much you know about these 3 locks but to be honest none of them belong in the same category as each other in my opinion...

Abloy Protec & Protec 2 are point blank unpickable as far as anyone knows and the particular lock format will obviously determine how well they stand up to destructive attacks. They are lightyears ahead of the other 2.
Medeco have been proverbially "Raped". A lot is know about them with many vulnerabilities having been exposed. They are most certainly pickable by people with patience and the skills, but still hard for amateurs.
The ABS lock is from what i have heard a much easier pick than a medeco and in fact most high security locks. They are susceptible to all DE methods as with any Euro cylinder with one exception, lock snapping. Now if thats the only point it has going for it, does it really deserve to be called a high security lock?

just some thoughts...

The Protec has been decoded/make-up keyed and also (probably) impressioned. The Protec 2...not so sure.

Medeco has been done to death.

The Avocet ABS is a cool lock. I picked one only the other week. It has MTL-like pin-in-pins and a 'magnetic' pin (the pin is just metal, any old magnet will work on it). However, it is good to know that the newer versions (mark II and III) have trap pins in them. They can be overcome through picking, it is not terminal if you fire them.

[spandexwarrior]

I don't think this was mentioned in this thread, but in the 2012/2013 time frame, Medeco did start countermilling their pin chambers and adding ASSA style brass barrel pins. I have a post on the other forum with some pictures. If you order a factory pinned, new cylinder, you'll likely get the countermilling, barrel pins, and the ARX style broached and milled pins that are standard now. These are all good things but might not be much more than a speed bump to someone who is skilled at picking Medeco's via standard methods.

-Brian

[ARF-GEF]

IMO the issue with the M3 is that it has a huuge keyhole. You know, whatever you want to do, you have plenty of space for it.

The Protec has been decoded/make-up keyed and also (probably) impressioned. The Protec 2...not so sure.

I think it's only a matter of time, they are not that different...

....<trap pins>... can be overcome through picking, it is not terminal if you fire them.

What does it mean "if you fire them"?

[huxleypig]

IMO the issue with the M3 is that it has a huuge keyhole. You know, whatever you want to do, you have plenty of space for it.

The Protec has been decoded/make-up keyed and also (probably) impressioned. The Protec 2...not so sure.

I think it's only a matter of time, they are not that different...

....<trap pins>... can be overcome through picking, it is not terminal if you fire them.

What does it mean "if you fire them"?

I mean if you tell them they are no longer required for employment! I mean just tripping them.

The Protec 2 - I know it has the ball bearing addition, do we know what else is different to the Protec about it?

[ARF-GEF]

Basically that's it, the interactive element. Plus it has the AWS- the anti wear system, which releives the first cut from the use caused by turning the main discs (and the rods).
But I have only taken one apart (the only one I own) and I was superhappy that I could finally put it together, so that's all my experience.

[Squelchtone]

IMO the issue with the M3 is that it has a huuge keyhole. You know, whatever you want to do, you have plenty of space for it.

I park my car there at night.

[Achyfellow]

IMO the issue with the M3 is that it has a huuge keyhole. You know, whatever you want to do, you have plenty of space for it.

I park my car there at night.

You park your M3 in your M3?

[GWiens2001]

The Avocet ABS is a cool lock. I picked one only the other week. It has MTL-like pin-in-pins and a 'magnetic' pin (the pin is just metal, any old magnet will work on it).

Sounds like a Thirard Federal...



Gordon

[ARF-GEF]

Rightly so, I suspect it's the same lock with different name.