Deadbolt: can I get anything better for the price?

[Squelchtone]

As noted previously, if they want in, NOTHING will step them. Not a steel fire door, not seven feet of concrete and a vault door, NOTHING.

I fight people tooth and nail on this mentality.. "if a bad guy wants to get in they will get in no matter what I do" As a person trying to protect their home, you've already given up if that's what you honestly believe. This is meant for anyone who reads this, not trying to make this personal or anything.

Don't tell me the average burglar or 21 year old neighborhood criminal thug meth head is going to get through a steel door and or even more than 2 inches of concrete yet alone seven feet of concrete. No they wont. Not smart enough and not equipped enough. Most criminals count on people thinking they live in a safe neighborhood and don't bother locking their doors, or do stupid things like leaving keys under plant and door mats. Most criminal count on people to not do anything past installing a crap lock on their door and blindly thinking their $20 dollar investment is good protection for their $300,000 dollar house. Many people in the town where I live are like this.

My thought is that if a bad guy wants into my place, I'm going to make them work for it and hopefully frustrate them enough to move on to the next house. Most people cant for financial reasons or landlord reasons go replace their current wooden door and frame with a commercial steel door and frame, so getting something better than the Home Depot $10 to $40 dollar deadbolt, replacing the 3/4 inch brass screws with 4 inch deck screws, a wrap around door protector, some door jamb style armor plates to significantly reduce or even entirely stop a kick in are all good steps to sleeping soundly.

I protect my place to the level that I can go away for a long weekend and not worry. Anything past 3 days gives someone time to bring in power tools like saws and drills, drive through the wall with a pick up truck, etc and I wont be there to do anything about it, but you can harden your doors enough to make it so a day time or night time burglary will not happen with a screw driver, crow bar, sledge hammer or bump keys and picks.


Do something, anything, $10 bucks in longer stronger screws to replace what came with your Kwikset lock is better than nothing.

Resigning yourself to the idea that you can't stop a break in, and not bothering to beef up home security, surely guarantees one.
Squelchtone

PS as to Evan saying a high security lock on a normal residential door is a total waste of money, I disagree. It's a good first step, in a long line of other steps an owner has to take. high security isn't just about being hard to drill, pick, kick, or saw, it also has to do with key control. Say a contractor from craigslist comes to your house, fixes something, has your Schlage key during the day while you're at work, sees you have nice things, makes a copy of your key at Home Depot on his lunch break, then gives you your key back and then robs you 3 months later while you're on vacation. If you have a high security lock, one of the usual sales points is good key control. Hand the contractor an Abloy or BiLock key, and they will hand you back the key at the end of the day and you know you are not going to get unexpected visitors sneaking in while you are on vacation. That also has to be a bad break in for insurance reasons, because there is no sign of break in, but suddenly your cash, spare car keys, check book, jewelry and sense of security is gone, and the insurance company will think you are nuts since all the doors are tightly locked and house wasn't ransacked, they just came in and took some paper work (think identity theft, etc)

[MBI]

I have high security locks, "door armor" and a monitored alarm. I'll list those here, because they're easily visible from the outside of the structure. There are also other precautions which aren't as obvious which I won't bother going into here.

You're right, you don't have to make it Fort Knox, but with a few reasonable precautions you can make it enough of a nuisance to get in that the majority of burglars will move along to an easier target.

[dll932]

Don't forget these:
http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key-systems/Pr ... dbolt.html
Good quality, can't be wrenched, use any 1" cyl with an Adams-Rite cam. I recall they're reasonably priced.

[Evan]

Don't forget these:
http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key-systems/Pr ... dbolt.html
Good quality, can't be wrenched, use any 1" cyl with an Adams-Rite cam. I recall they're reasonably priced.

Actually the cam those use is very different from an Adams Rite cam...

~~ Evan

[dll932]

Don't forget these:
http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key-systems/Pr ... dbolt.html
Good quality, can't be wrenched, use any 1" cyl with an Adams-Rite cam. I recall they're reasonably priced.

Actually the cam those use is very different from an Adams Rite cam...

~~ Evan

Not that I've ever installed.

[Squelchtone]

Evan,

Paragraph 3, Sentence 2: http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key-systems/30 ... -ilco.html

Last I knew as well, Lori mortise deadbolts use standard Adams Rite cam.

Perhaps you were thinking of another model or something,

Squelchtone

[globallockytoo]

I have seen and repaired those deadbolts before. They are Lori old stock.

Y'know, often security of a deadbolt could just mean connecting the bolt to the strike, as opposed to the bolt just sitting in the strike box.

I am the US importer of the Lockwood 7444 Keyed Pocket Door Lock. Even though this product is rudimentarily designed for pocket sliding or cavity doors, there is no reason it cannot be installed to a swinging door.
Then, upon locking, the bolt is physically connected to the strike plate, preventing force back.

Just another thought.

[dll932]

Evan,

Paragraph 3, Sentence 2: http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key-systems/30 ... -ilco.html

Last I knew as well, Lori mortise deadbolts use standard Adams Rite cam.

Perhaps you were thinking of another model or something,

Squelchtone

IIRC, they're one of the few tubular deadbolts you can get with less than a 2 3/8" backset (for French doors or others with narrow stiles).

[dll932]

I have high security locks, "door armor" and a monitored alarm. I'll list those here, because they're easily visible from the outside of the structure. There are also other precautions which aren't as obvious which I won't bother going into here.

You're right, you don't have to make it Fort Knox, but with a few reasonable precautions you can make it enough of a nuisance to get in that the majority of burglars will move along to an easier target.

EXACTLY. You just need to make it hard-or even LOOK hard. The average burglar is not possessed of advanced skills. A lot of burglaries take place simply because the door WASN'T LOCKED.

Security has to have more than one layer-lights, clear sightlines, deadbolts on all doors, alarm (or at least alarm SIGNS)...you all get the idea.

[Evan]

Evan,

Paragraph 3, Sentence 2: http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key-systems/30 ... -ilco.html

Last I knew as well, Lori mortise deadbolts use standard Adams Rite cam.

Perhaps you were thinking of another model or something,

Squelchtone

Nope...

"Can work with" doesn't mean that is the cam it was designed for...

Using an Adams Rite cam on those locks requires a lot of extra turning to operate them, the ones I have seen which used the Original Lori mortise cylinders in them had a cam that looked like a wide china fan spread out and only required 1/4 turn either direction to operate the bolt...

~~ Evan

[dll932]

I recall seeing those "fan" cams in the past, but nearly even Lori bolt I've seen or installed (we have some here where I work) had cyls with A/R cams, FWIW.

[miguelmonk]

Squelchtone,

You and I agree from an average homeowner's viewpoint.

Regarding your "I fight people tooth and nail on this mentality" comment, it is wrong in reality, but it is correct for the average homeowner. You have heard of bank vaults, correct? You have heard of them being burglarized, correct? That was the point of my "NOTHING will stop them" comment, which was directed to Evan in frustration because he was not grasping the reality of "reasonable" home security, i.e., my having beefed up the door jambs, 3" screws into two 2x4s, a better lock, Mini Door Shields at the locks and at the hinges to strengthen the door against kick-ins, and deciding on Abloy vs. something else for bump/pick-proofing. He seemed to imply that because I only have a steel-clad door and not a commercial steel fire door, my efforts were useless.

Also, did you notice my comments right above that paragraph? "I have done my steps '...so that my door will be as strong as I reasonably can make it without replacing it.' I have repeatedly stated that my goal is to take REASONABLE steps to prevent a break-in." You verified my comments were reasonable when you stated that you are "going to make them work for it and hopefully frustrate them enough to move on to the next house." That is PRECISELY what I was trying to Evan to grasp. I have already done all the "good steps to sleeping soundly" that you mentioned.

I certainly HOPE that my neighbor leaves his door unlocked...well, at least the neighbors who don't have an adjoining wall to my unit!

Heck, even if I had 7' of concrete, no windows, and great locks, all a robber would have to do is wait for me to get home, stick a gun in my face, and force me in, or blow me away and then take my keys.

Thank you for verifying that my steps so far are not a waste of time.

Gregg

[cledry]

Originally Lori locks used the AR cam and they still work fine with it. Later on they came up with the cam Evan is talking about, but it isn't required. Either is just fine. Russwin also makes a similar deadbolt that uses a mortise cylinder. Not sure which came first.

[cledry]

BTW, if anyone is looking for Lori deadbolts, I have a few thousand in 26D 2 3/4" but branded as Dorma.

[Evan]

BTW, if anyone is looking for Lori deadbolts, I have a few thousand in 26D 2 3/4" but branded as Dorma.

A few thousand ? Was there a good sale ?

~~ Evan