How to prevent break-in by drilling or breaking off the lock

[rt22355]

I have two key requirements for an electronic lock which I believe will make it almost unbreakable..

First it has to be keycode access only ( no wireless ).

Second I think the locking mechanism should be electronic, i.e the part that locks in the wall should not be rotated by a handle but rather by electric motor. I think this is required to avoid someone drilling-in from outside or even breaking off the outside part and then simply manually turning the mechanism to unlock. However I have not seen yet such a model with electronic rotor at reasonable price ( 300 USD )

This samsung model claims that the handle prevents drilling-in . Not sure how safe that is ? But the lock has brute-force alar http://www.samsungdigitallife.com/SHS-P717.php

This other samsung model seems less safe from drilling/ breaking off atttack since they can simply drill in the handle http://www.samsungdigitallife.com/SHS-5050.php

What do you think ?

[Squelchtone]

well first, is this for a residential home or a commercial business? are you mounting it on a wooden door and frame or a metal door and frame? will this be on a primary exterior door or a door into an office or interior room? and is this a latch or a deadbolt?

I can't seem to locate the claim about "drilling-in"...

careful when talking about drilling here, we pick locks for fun, we don't discuss how locks are drilled in the open because we don't want to teach bad guys how to break into places, so don't get into too many attack details please, or the post will be deleted/edited.

I'm moving this from Locksmith area to the Ask a Locksmith - What Lock Should I Buy? area.

Squelchtone

[rt22355]

well first, is this for a residential home or a commercial business? are you mounting it on a wooden door and frame or a metal door and frame? will this be on a primary exterior door or a door into an office or interior room? and is this a latch or a deadbolt?

I can't seem to locate the claim about "drilling-in"...

careful when talking about drilling here, we pick locks for fun, we don't discuss how locks are drilled in the open because we don't want to teach bad guys how to break into places, so don't get into too many attack details please, or the post will be deleted/edited.

I'm moving this from Locksmith area to the Ask a Locksmith - What Lock Should I Buy? area.

Squelchtone

Hi, thank you for your reply. Really Appreciate it.

I will upload a few pictures of the door/lock and will get back to all your questions.... ( including the drill in claim )

[Jacob Morgan]

A good number of locks and doors are not perfectly installed and one has to push in on the door or turn the key with some force when the bolt is not correctly aligned with the strike plate. Or even if they are perfectly installed what happens when the foundation settles or high humidity makes wood expand? Unless everything is really well aligned it might risk overloaded motors burning out and/or locking out the owners. For do-it-yourself installations that might result in a bad reputation and warranty claims.

[LocksportSouth]

A good number of locks and doors are not perfectly installed and one has to push in on the door or turn the key with some force when the bolt is not correctly aligned with the strike plate. Or even if they are perfectly installed what happens when the foundation settles or high humidity makes wood expand? Unless everything is really well aligned it might risk overloaded motors burning out and/or locking out the owners. For do-it-yourself installations that might result in a bad reputation and warranty claims.

This is true - I have a uPVC door so it should "fit perfectly" as it's made to go together with the frame and the multipoint locking and shouldn't need any special woodworking like a wooden door. But to get it to lock you need to "push" on the door from the inside / "pull" on the handle from the outside (I pull up -and- out but I think it just needs pulling closer; it's not a handle problem AFAIK) in order for the key to be able to turn in the lock, otherwise it's incredibly stiff. I've tried other cylinders in the lock and it's the same problem. AFAIK the Euro holes are pre-drilled/premade into the door on manufacture to it can't be mis-aligned drilling. Very strange. But yeah, just wanted to +1 this. I wouldn't trust an electronic lock on this door...

[billdeserthills]

A good number of locks and doors are not perfectly installed and one has to push in on the door or turn the key with some force when the bolt is not correctly aligned with the strike plate. Or even if they are perfectly installed what happens when the foundation settles or high humidity makes wood expand? Unless everything is really well aligned it might risk overloaded motors burning out and/or locking out the owners. For do-it-yourself installations that might result in a bad reputation and warranty claims.

This is true - I have a uPVC door so it should "fit perfectly" as it's made to go together with the frame and the multipoint locking and shouldn't need any special woodworking like a wooden door. But to get it to lock you need to "push" on the door from the inside / "pull" on the handle from the outside (I pull up -and- out but I think it just needs pulling closer; it's not a handle problem AFAIK) in order for the key to be able to turn in the lock, otherwise it's incredibly stiff. I've tried other cylinders in the lock and it's the same problem. AFAIK the Euro holes are pre-drilled/premade into the door on manufacture to it can't be mis-aligned drilling. Very strange. But yeah, just wanted to +1 this. I wouldn't trust an electronic lock on this door...

One of the services I provide with my die grinder is to file out those strike plates, so when the door is closed it can easily be locked,
without pushing or pulling. This also makes the hardware last much longer and keeps the deadbolt latches from bending, as they were
not designed to withstand side pressure.

Far as the original question goes, every home I have worked on has plenty of windows for a crook to toss a rock through. All the lock
can do is force a thief to show a sign of physical entry--Locks are no longer required to keep a thief out, merely to show entry & then
your insurance agent takes care of the rest

[rt22355]

Hi Guys,

Here are pics of the door's original lock. I need to replace that lock with an electric one.
http://postimg.org/image/4a2w0ossx/
http://s16.postimg.org/p1vcvojit/image.jpg
http://s14.postimg.org/wqe54vsap/image.jpg
http://s2.postimg.org/w3b2lm9tl/image.jpg
http://s30.postimg.org/kyd6tn9oh/P1100311.jpg

1.
First off I will appreciate comments on my current lock's safety .. from my point a view since it has an exposed keyhole .. it is pretty much hackable.. ????

For that reason I decided to replace it ( or complement it ) with an electronic keycode one ...

However because of the existing deadbold meachism I am not even sure if it can be properly replaced as someone mentioned in previous reply....

2.
I need a recommendation on which electric keycode lock to choose. So far I am considering the following models from Samsung:

http://www.samsungdigitallife.com/SHS-P717.php
http://www.samsungdigitallife.com/SHS-5050.php

Here is an installation video on the Samsung locks, could someone comment if they are indeed more secure ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=796zO4NyGRY .. For example the lock has a brute force ringer.. i.e it will ring if forced ... however irrespective of that am I right in thinking that someone could just break the outer facing of the lock and then manually turn the deadbold to unlock it ??

The following brochure states that the Samsnung lock is "safe/secure" from drilling/ keytail punching attacks ... http://www.samsungdigitallife.com/Downl ... S-P717.pdf and apparently the handle design helps to block this. Is this really so ?

3.
I am also wondering if these electronic keycode locks are actually safer than the mechanical keycode locks such as these .. https://www.google.ie/search?q=keycode+ ... 24&bih=458

4.
My door shown in the pics above is made from pretty solid material and as seen from one of the pictures when locked has metal poles protruding into the left, top and bottom parts of the frame. If I have to replace the original lock with an electric one I may have to give up the multi-side locking however I think it will still be safer with the electric keylock....

5.
Another option is to keep the original lock and complement it with an electronic keycode night latch such as this one from Yale http://www.yale.co.uk/en/yale/couk/prod ... mart-Lock/ ...


All comments really appreciated.. Thanks.

[billdeserthills]

Actually I like the lock you have now & if I desired a higher level of security I would replace the lock cylinder itself.
I'm sure plenty of new & interesting ways of getting into the samsung lock will be found by enterprising hobbyists
& crooks, as soon as a few appear on doors out there.

I know I am always interested in the new ways constantly found
to trick electronic safe locks into opening, many times without ever drilling into the safe they are mounted on.

Thing is security can mean many things, but a chair under the door can still give one the time necessary to gain
access to the shotgun, or a bigger club, and what caveman could wish for more?

[cledry]

The photos you posted relating to point #3 are also electronic locks not mechanical.

[cledry]

The Samsung lock is designed for convenience not security. It has no more security than a typical grade 2 cylindrical lock. One unit does have a deadbolt but not as secure as multipoint locking. Also all Samsung electronic locks come with a mechanical key override which can be compromised just like your existing lock.

[rt22355]

The Samsung lock is designed for convenience not security. It has no more security than a typical grade 2 cylindrical lock. One unit does have a deadbolt but not as secure as multipoint locking. Also all Samsung electronic locks come with a mechanical key override which can be compromised just like your existing lock.

I agree having a mechanical key override kills the whole point.

I think this another one meets all my perceived requirements .. it is another samsung .. there might be others... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEXOD5ptdjk


This looks like the safest lock available. Period. !!!

No mechanical key.
Shock-attack safety
The deadbold is electronic ... even if they break the outer part, they cant manually open / turn the deadbold.


I am very excited about this second model ... looks everything what I have been looking for ...

[rt22355]

Also ... they have this deadbolt variant with no override key http://www.samsungdigitallife.com/SHS-3321.php
I am wondering if it is more or less secure than the latch model ... with the deadbolt variant the electronic deadbolt is inside of the door itself but is accessible from outside ( after breaking outer part ) via the hole that needs to be drilled during installation . ( I think the hole needs to be drilled to accommodate another variant which does have mechanical key override ... they should have separate installation guides for the two deadbolt variants .. )

Versus the the latch model whose electronic bolt is completely on the back of door ( not accessible via a hole ) .

Deadbolt model schematic ( there is two variants with and without mechanical key override ) : https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9624 ... a14784.pdf

Latch model schematic http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6 ... L1000_.jpg

[Squelchtone]

Having looked at the pdf's you linked, I have an idea for an easy attack on the model that does not have a cylinder, but I won't discuss it in this post. It does involve drilling a hole but that's all I'll say here.

I sense you want one of us to give you approval or reassure you that yes, this is absolutely the safest lock you should go with and you can sleep well and feel safe, but I don't think we can do that. I wouldn't worry about someone picking or bumping or hacking the lock, a swift kick to a door is all that is usually needed unless the frame and strike box have been reinforced.

[Evan]

I have two key requirements for an electronic lock which I believe will make it almost unbreakable..

First it has to be keycode access only ( no wireless ).

Second I think the locking mechanism should be electronic, i.e the part that locks in the wall should not be rotated by a handle but rather by electric motor. I think this is required to avoid someone drilling-in from outside or even breaking off the outside part and then simply manually turning the mechanism to unlock. However I have not seen yet such a model with electronic rotor at reasonable price ( 300 USD )

What do you think ?

Sounds like you need to understand that most doors that a lock such as you propose installing on them will fail faster than the lock. So how the lock operates (key or no key) is meaningless when you consider that brute force is the vastly employed forced-entry method.

I would suggest you look at reinforcement of the door and the door frame, perhaps even the wall said door is located in. Otherwise CCTV and alarms will be of the most utility per unit of money invested in security as they can serve as a visual deterrent to being selected as a victim for burglary and can also produce a recording of those responsible if something does happen. A fancy lock no matter what brand it is can not really help you figure out who destroyed or bypassed it.

~~ Evan

[LocksportSouth]

As others have mentioned, forced entry (kicking the door in, breaking a window etc) and taking advantage of security weaknesses (unlocked door, opening a window on the latch, using tools in your shed to break in etc) are more common than picking and bypass. Lock snapping *is* more common at least here in the UK - I'd suggest looking getting an Anti-snap regular cylinder as you're using Euros. You can get high security regular cylinders with anti drill pins too. Otherwise as others have mentioned look at the rest of your property - figure out the weak points. Think like a burglar - how would you break in? A police-connected alarm system and CCTV (don't forget to either have the CCTV stream offsite or lock the DVR in a safe, lest the thief nick it!) would be a good deterrant as Evan mentioned, and reinforcing the door or even getting one of those fancy armored doors would be even better (though your door looks pretty decent already). Bars on the windows too but it might make you feel like a prisoner!

Some higher security Euro cylinders (mechanical, not electric) include the Kaba pExtra Guard, Abloy Protec2, Cisa Astral S, DOM Diamant, Avocet ABS, Brisant Ultion, and EVVA MCS or 3KS - all depends on your budgets and what you're trying to protect against. Some are better against snapping, some against picking etc etc.