Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Beginner here!

When it comes down to it there is nothing better than manual tools for your Lock pick Set, whether they be retail, homebrew, macgyver style. DIY'ers look here.

Beginner here!

Postby smithers43 » 3 Feb 2012 18:38

so i recently got a beginners lock pick set and a small lock. Its a new blue masterlock 40mm for like 6 dollars and i am having some difficulty with it. sometimes i seem to have some luck and my tension wrench will move a little bit and i get all excited but nothing ever becomes of it. couple questions : 1 - the first pin continuously falls down even if it makes a click and seems to lock, it will fall down easily . 2 - how much pressure do i put on the tension wrench? and 3 - do i start at the back of the lock or the front, ive heard you should start at the back but i like to do the front because i can see the pins haha any help would be awesome thanks!
smithers43
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 3 Feb 2012 18:04

Re: Beginner here!

Postby gloves » 3 Feb 2012 20:32

Hello and welcome :)

First a question for you: can you easily count the pins inside using your hook pick? :)
If you can, you're a step ahead, otherwise keep practicing this simple exercise because feeling in this sport is very, very important. :D

If your master lock is that one I've got in mind, it has 4 pins and they're all standard, no spool or other security pins.

Answer #1: If you take a look at a cutaway diagram of a pin tumbler lock, you'll see how that pin falling means nothing, since it'd just be setting the driver pin and the key pin falls back. Also it may fall if you inadvertently forced that pin while the binding one is the next or another one. Have a look at wikipedia diagrams for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_tumbler_lock

Here is an interesting thread on here about master locks and their pins viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23712

Answer #2: Sadly there is no set torque, every lock is different and you have to build experience and feeling and watch/hear how the lock behaves to know how much you should put. Usually people put too much torque.

Answer #3: Again there is no set sequence, you have to put some torque and feel with you pick which pin is binding. It may be the first, the last, or the middle one.

Have a look at the guides found here in case you didn't already viewforum.php?f=2

Have fun :wink:
gloves
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 4 Jun 2010 14:42

Re: Beginner here!

Postby smithers43 » 3 Feb 2012 23:52

thanks a bunch man much appreciated! when you were talking about certain pins being the setting pins or something, does that mean that you have to get that one first and THEN the others will set at the sheer line? also i believe my lock has 3 pins? but maybe it has four, regardless looked at the masterlock thread and what exactly are security pins?

sorry for all the dumb questions but it seems like a fun hobby
smithers43
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 3 Feb 2012 18:04

Re: Beginner here!

Postby fredy pick » 4 Feb 2012 4:32

smithers43 welcome, from EXPERIENCE I can tell you it is normal to start with the last pin, the further from the mouth llave.y tension is critical, the minimum possible is recommended, the carving of the key gives you all the information you need to learn to look at her.
with a picture of the key podris tell me your coding and devilidades and necessary hook.

aprobecho this opportunity to ask why anyone who wants to respond in this forum are not avituales the pictures and videos and sports starts with the lock on the hand?

Spain in my Forum rules respecting the maximum opening is normal sports add photos and videos in one post.
a greeting.
fredy.
fredy pick
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 14:44
Location: madrid españa

Re: Beginner here!

Postby gloves » 4 Feb 2012 6:43

smithers43 wrote:thanks a bunch man much appreciated! when you were talking about certain pins being the setting pins or something, does that mean that you have to get that one first and THEN the others will set at the sheer line? also i believe my lock has 3 pins? but maybe it has four, regardless looked at the masterlock thread and what exactly are security pins?

sorry for all the dumb questions but it seems like a fun hobby


While talking about setting pins, I (and about everybody else I think) means those pins which "bind" when putting some torque to the cylinder due to machining tolerances in the lock which don't make their alignment perfect. By using this "defect" in the lock, you can feel which driver pin is ready to "fall" in its proper position just beyond the sheer line, by manipulating the key pin.
Manipulating the key pins one by one in order to set the driver pins properly (as the key was intended to do) unlocks the cylinder.

I think that your lock has 4 pins, so unless Master Lock made a different model, I think there is one you can't yet feel with your pick.
As fredy pick already suggested, have a look at your key. In case that wikipedia picture was too theoretical, I dug up a real life picture of a key and pins. This should give you an idea of how you can count the pins in your lock by looking at its key. Those dents on the key are where key pins make contact and reach the correct level to unlock the lock.
Image
Image by user Datagram. Uploaded on Lockwiki. URL http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/File: ... o_pins.jpg
That is a Medeco lock though, your Master Lock key pins are probably more rounded.

Security pins are an added measure to prevent easy (I know at the beginning even picking regular pins isn't that easy!) picking of the lock. They come in various shapes, the most common ones are spool, mushroom and serrated and are usually present as driver pins though some locks also have modified key pins.

When you're manipulating a key pin which has a spool pin above, by applying light torque and pushing it up, you'll see the cylinder rotate some degrees and getting stuck there. That's because the spool pin was pushed only partially and it's getting stuck diagonally in the shear line, preventing further rotation (and of course opening of the lock). If you'll relieve torque on the lock and carefully push the same key pin some more, you'll be able to make that spool pin pass the shear line and set properly. Of course you have to master regular pins and good feeling in order to achieve success at locks with security features.

Here is an article about security pins on lockwiki http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/Security_pin and a short spool pin animation on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enFRn189Qo0

There is quite some literature about them in the forums and elsewhere in the net, I suggest practicing with locks without security pins first as they're easier.

If you feel stressed by not being able to open that lock, I suggest try raking with a half diamond pick (which you surely have in your set, being one of the most common designs) as an ego booster. It's that one which looks like it has a "triangle" at the tip. Put a little tension on your lock and rake with your half diamond back and forth at the pins. They'll begin to set and you should be able to open it.
Again this is a less orthodox technique which I suggest not to get frustrated on that particular lock. In some cases raking also saves time compared to pin to pin picking, but the latter is very important because it builds feeling to tackle harder to pick locks.

Enjoy :)
gloves
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 4 Jun 2010 14:42

Re: Beginner here!

Postby smithers43 » 4 Feb 2012 10:43

Thanks guys it much appreciated! i actually got it twice late last night in quick succession but then couldnt do it again. Not sure exactly why I got it but it lets me know its still possible which is good
smithers43
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 3 Feb 2012 18:04

Re: Beginner here!

Postby fredy pick » 4 Feb 2012 18:33

congratulations pr those openings, as I commented with a picture of the key can give you more information and teach you to understand your opening.
a greeting
fredy pick
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 14:44
Location: madrid españa

Re: Beginner here!

Postby Bob Jim Bob » 29 Feb 2012 12:37

I just started also and I've found that a good selection of torsion tools is really helpful. Not just because some fit better, but I have locks that seem to open differently if the torsion is applied to the center of the lock or the edge.
Bob Jim Bob
 
Posts: 103
Joined: 6 Feb 2012 13:01
Location: New York

Re: Beginner here!

Postby Violaetor » 1 Mar 2012 8:10

The reason you should start at the back of a lock is primarily relevant to old/used locks, everytime the key is inserted and removed there is minute wear to each of the pins (the first pin gets moved 10 times, the 2nd 8 times, 3rd 6x, 4th 4x, 5th 2x, in a five pin tumber) so the first pin is usually the narrowest and the last pin retains most of its original diameter thus making it be the first binding pin.

But, in a new lock the pins have had no wear, so, within tolerance, all pins are the same.

So, that is the reasoning behind the back to front order, but is definitely not set in stone and is more of a generalization.
Image
Looking to get something made? Send me a PM!
Violaetor
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 31 Dec 2010 10:39

Re: Beginner here!

Postby unjust » 1 Mar 2012 16:55

congrats on the opens, and welcome to the world of tiny brass 3d puzzles.

on #2- tension. a _lot_ less than you think. something i've used to teach an initial feel for tension is to put the key in, then fit a tension wrench to the hole in the key, and see how much force it takes to turn the key. now reduce that by at least half so that you can see the key just start to turn but not actually start to move the mechanisms of the lock. once you can feel where your'e starting to get the mechanism, you'll have a ball park for what you're aiming for. the operational force is much more because you're moving all those subsidiary items, and it feels like a lot because we're used to a <1cm lever of the key bow to turn it, not many times that of a tension tool.
unjust
 
Posts: 372
Joined: 7 Nov 2006 15:19
Location: Minneapolis MN


Return to Lock Picks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests

cron