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Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

When it comes down to it there is nothing better than manual tools for your Lock pick Set, whether they be retail, homebrew, macgyver style. DIY'ers look here.

Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby south town ninja » 5 Apr 2014 14:57

Legend has it that at some point , an Israeli, whose name I do not know, came up with the configuration for what would become the HPC line of computer picks although the HPC line is supposedly 30% larger. Can anyone shed some light on this? Could anyone kindly point me in the right direction regarding how to get ahold of these mysterious israeli templates? could anyone even tell me the name of the israeli who invented them, so that i might further my search? Any Help would be greatly appreciated. I would also appreciate a template of the HPC one's as well. thank you so much.
The Very Best Form of Government is a Pick-Lockracy
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby spandexwarrior » 5 Apr 2014 19:26

I don't know of any other than the ones HPC and Majestic make which I believe are exactly the same however, I don't think these are really of much use in any case. They're interesting and cool looking I guess but they are very fragile. They're really just jigglers in a bunch of different patterns and are probably meant for someone who is less skilled to get into something low security relatively quickly. They're really not worth buying and unless you have a specific reason to make them, probably not worth the hassle either. Just my 2 cents though.

-Brian
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby south town ninja » 5 Apr 2014 19:33

I appreciate the feed back, but im one of those people that likes to have every advantage at my disposal and if i think i can win a war by having a more diverse arsenal, i will. probably some newbie think on my part as well as my laziness showing through. Thanks for the reply
The Very Best Form of Government is a Pick-Lockracy
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby spandexwarrior » 5 Apr 2014 19:34

spandexwarrior wrote:I don't know of any other than the ones HPC and Majestic make which I believe are exactly the same however, I don't think these are really of much use in any case. They're interesting and cool looking I guess but they are very fragile. They're really just jigglers in a bunch of different patterns and are probably meant for someone who is less skilled to get into something low security relatively quickly. They're really not worth buying and unless you have a specific reason to make them, probably not worth the hassle either. Just my 2 cents though.

-Brian


Disregard about the Majestics being the same as the HPC. The Majectic ones are double sided and have different profiles. Same philosophy though. The HPC's are Stainless so are probably stronger though.

-Brian
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby IndigoChild » 10 Apr 2014 12:46

spandexwarrior wrote:I don't know of any other than the ones HPC and Majestic make which I believe are exactly the same however, I don't think these are really of much use in any case. They're interesting and cool looking I guess but they are very fragile. They're really just jigglers in a bunch of different patterns and are probably meant for someone who is less skilled to get into something low security relatively quickly. They're really not worth buying and unless you have a specific reason to make them, probably not worth the hassle either. Just my 2 cents though.

-Brian


This is pretty much it. It is just a line of jigglers created based on computer generated average pin stack profiles. Basicly a universal tryout key set. But they often have trouble functioning the lock. I used a few and a rake works much better than these. I just couldnt get the feel for themm
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"Only one way to find out. Open it up!"
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby sterry20 » 31 May 2014 14:06

i have tried these picks and they do work but i found the tools that i all ready have do a better and quicker job and would save my money for other tools im wanting for my tool pouch!
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby Shifty1 » 23 Jan 2015 17:59

Greetings.I don't participate by word on this site as often as I should because I'm a listener and always a student. But I would like to say something on the topic of lock pick raking and the prevailing species of picks and associated technique that goes along with raking. Let me begin by saying that I am a single pin picking purist, but I'm hooked on raking too. I have curry-combed the web by way of catalog browsing and forum posts for varitiy in rake designs offered over the past ten years. And so I've become a pick collector of sorts as a result my quest. My rake sets include : HPC Computer Rakes, Majestic High Tec Wiggler Rakes(8pc set), Peterson Mini Ripples(3 City Rake variations), SouthOrd SDJ-13 Pin Tumbler Jigglers, Bogata variations, MadBob Prince andPrincess Pair(Renia Pair), Sparrows King an Queen Pair and a few of my own brew... Let it suffice to say that I own a lot of rakes but only a few single pin picks. Single picks are dull, and fundemental! More often than not, I'll rake just to soften up a lock or get a false set on a security pin and finish the lock by SPP - and I'm embarassed to say much of the time with a favorite homemade pick!

However, I pick locks all the time and and simply practice for hours every day. Every day. So in brief what I'd like to say is that of all the rakes I possess, and all the locks and pinnings I have, and all the time I devote to picking, gutting, and decoding, I have found that the best rakes out there insofar as thought and practicality are concerned are the Bogata variations and the Majestic High Tec Wiggler Set, the HTPK-20 and it's discontinued and personally sought after cousin, the HTPK-36. And if such a thing can be said, I get a lot of feedback from these rakes. So getting to the point of my post, my question is why did Majestic break up larger 16pc set? After 25+ years in circulation and in my opinion the most sensible set out there. The so called computer assisted design is well thought out and although statistically limited, is somewhat definitive in practical terms as regards raking and rocking - raking being the controlled accident that it is. By comparing the big and small set, it seems that they uncritically split the larger set up and down the middle - refering to the scan of the identical 16pc set offered through mbaUSA and posted earlier on this site by a considerate site member. It appears that Initial Security of France rebranded the identically cut set and markets them through mbaUSA, a restricted purchase site - not at all locksport friendly, yet modestly priced. So, I infer that if two pick makers can offer the probably unpatented tool, then will some sensible and resourceful company reissue this generous set of tools to the greater locksport community as Majestic once did with the HTPK-36(16pc set). I'll be your first customer and by 2 sets just in case they go out of style again!

I do not mean to digress, but Initial Security and mbaUSA also offer a 30 piece jiggler/tryout set called Magic Keys. There again, the new SouthOrd Pin Tumbler Jiggler set SDJ-13 are oddly reminicient of the 30pc Magic Key tryout set. Here, too, is said to be a computer generated thought experiment realized in steel and is idealy reminiscent of the Majestic set mentioned above if only by way function and not form. SouthOrd for the most part is quite a reliable and service ready company but they must be having market share anguish lately to brew up some such novelty. The SouthOrd SDJ-13 are total crap(like Kwikset... they know that too, but unabashedly sell lots)and consistently jam in the lock upon shear. Now because mbaUSA is not locksport friendly, I cannot own a set of Magic Keys, nor would I ever! I'm already flumoxed with 13 keys by SouthOrd that, however digitally arrived at, are not free enough in the keyway upon shear to be able to retract. On the other hand, you will always be able to freely extract the Majestic rakes to further maniputate the lock. Of course the Majestic picks will not open everything, but they are free ranging enough in the lock to map and massage it open and not jam upon shear! For example, and for practical purposes, if you had to pick a lock in reverse because of wear and have to plug spin, these jigglers would not be the answer.

Now, getting back to the Majestic High Tec set of computer generated profiles. Yeah, I'm a little smitten of this product. I'm just #@*!^% I can't make them myself! I consistently have great success with these rakes and have much practice with them but I feel that I would pay good money to have the full set of 16 double-ended picks once offered by Majestic. Does anybody out there in the locksport community have a set that they are not using for sale. I'm intrested. I went so far as to measure and plot the scaned photograph of the Initial picks posted earlier on this site and as a machinist with many machine tools available to me, I cannot make these(no waterjet/no laser) ;( They look die cut too... Nevertheless, I say to myself if I can measure it I can make it(someday), and if I can mentally-map a lock I can pick it(someday)!

So here is a call to Majestic or for that matter any enterprising pick manufacturer to consider this pickers critique and reissue to the greater locksport community the expanded 16pc set once offered by Majestic if only for the sake of completeness. From a technical point of view, and, as well-kitted as I am, I feel an irritating sense of my skillset being undermined by an uncritical tampering with, and discontinuation of, a once popular product, and owning only half of a known set of picks when price is no object. In my opinion, these rakes are not merely snowmen and other useless set fillers sold to the curious and uninitiated. And if it's a matter of economy, HPC are unabashed at offering sinusoidal computer picks at $80.00 and mbaUSA offer their picks at a bargin at around $70.00. Why even an inspired Asian outfit marketing on Banggood saw good to produce a lame but enterprising 10pc Wave Rake set made from decently tempered .028" thick stainless steel in the Falle style double-ending - while Majestic and Initial picks are only offered in carbon steel. So why these watered down half-measures that can only serve to frustrate this hobbiest in his craft. Or am I just missing something here? No pun intended!

On a final note, the UK Locksport reviewer on Youtube reviewed both the Majestic HTPK-20 Wiggler 8pc set and the SouthOrd Pin Tumbler Jigglers SDJ-13 and concluded in the two and seperate videos that he very much liked the Majestic Wigglers but was not at all keen with the SouthOrd Jigglers, even going so far as to say that it might even be a good idea to expand the set by x2 ie., 26+ keys and skinny them up. And why not? They've revised the set already from 11 keys to 13 keys. Unconsciouscly or otherwise, the UK critic more or less dejuvued a description of the mbaUSA 30pc Magic Key tryout set! Why are we are still being offered this pablum of price shockingly useless picks, half-measures, half-sets, Asian knock-offs, and novelties when the most perennial and technically sound solution was kinda digitally arrived at years ago. I'm a machinist and I know that in fine-blank manufacturing at this level, it takes just as long to to a good job as it does a bad one - especially at this level of production and pricing. The jig is up gentlemen! A few keystrokes and mouse clicks and an extra penny worth of material will realize this set again for anyone enterprising enough to follow through with it. I can't be fooled by all the other gimmickery and call upon new commers to the community to resist buying into these half-baked notions and novelties. Keep on with single pin picking and get practiced enough in your skills so that you can eventually relax into raking... with a dimminished set. Thats All Folks. Peace out and pick a lock! :)
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby nite0wl » 23 Jan 2015 20:51

As a small note, the Peterson Mini Ripples are just Peterson's copies of a set of almost unique "Jagged Lifters" originally designed by John Falle. They are commonly referred to as the Falle Slope (Peterson Mini-Ripple 3), Falle Hump (Peterson Mini-Ripple 1), and Falle Valley (Peterson Mini-Ripple 2). While those tools can be used as rakes (particularly the Falle Hump), they are intended to be used similarly to a King and Queen set, pressing the working tip into the full set of pins at different angles to simulate a key being inserted. Raking with those tools tends to put more stress on the shafts of those tools than they are designed for and will cause them to form a pronounced bow, often more quickly than tools designed for raking.
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Re: Mysterious Israeli Computer Picks

Postby Shifty1 » 5 Feb 2015 15:28

I loosely use the term raking to describe minimal movement of the pick in an axial/angular kind of way to eventuate an opening. I never get too vigorous with a lock. And you are right. Falle was the originator of the a.k.a Peterson ripples.They are an abbreviated trio of variable tilt picks of quality and work well with the right touch - though hard to purchase individually. I don't use them much. Not if a bogy is at hand. A collector item for me really and not easily aquired.
Falle and company are black budgeted and unapproachable while even Peterson tends to be touchy about who qualifies to purchase from them even at the individual pick level. Well, for that matter, the sale of drill bits and sledge hammers might as well be restricted, too. What over-policed nonsense! Really. And just who buys the bulk of their mock leather-bound scraps of steel of questionable utility? Spooks? Locksmiths? They are an unlikely majority in a sucker born every minute world. I reckon that few techs want to be discomforted for too long down on one knee proposing to a chaste lock for image sake; and a commando is a ham-handed door-breacher of the unwelcome kind looking to pick a fight, not a lock. I jest of course! Techs are just hard workin guys! And thugs are mugs. But some outfits otta loosen up! :)
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