Peterson Pick Finishing Quality

[WildEMT]

Good morning from AK!

I am returning to sport-picking after a few years off. It was a hobby I loved in college, but then lost track of it with grad school, kids, work. etc. I'm really excited to be getting back into it.

After some research online, I decided to buy a Peterson gov steel set. I was hoping it would be a significant upgrade from the old SouthOrd set I had used for years (I think the SouthOrd set was even an "outlet" set... pretty rough).

I ordered the "Eagles Nest" set in the gov steel and my order came in quickly. After looking over the picks, I have some questions regarding the finish on the picks and wrenches. The cuts are "rippled' in many places both on the picks and the top-of-the-keyway wrenches. They are not a clean, flat edge. In addition, many of the picks have rough, sharp edges. For my comfort using them and to prevent them from snagging in the keyway, I am compelled to finish them with some wet/dry sandpaper and a diamond file.

I have attached a few pictures of the rough finish (although my macro-photography skills leave much to be desired). The pics are of the wrenches, but the same ripples and roughness occur on the picks as well.

Honestly, I would put their finish level on par with the much cheaper SouthOrd set I have owned for a while. I have no doubt the steel quality is significantly better, but I was hoping for more finish and comfort in a $80 set of picks. I wanted to know if this is typical quality for these sets? Or, did I get a bad batch?

Thanks for all of your expertise in advance! I have been learning LOTS from these forums.

[Squelchtone]

[TOPIC MOVED: from Ask Beginner Hobby Lock Picking Questions to Hardware -Lock Picks]

[WildEMT]

Thanks for the move Squelchtone. Didn't know where the rookie question was appropriate.

I also sent the same inquiry to the general Peterson company email address. Much to my delight and surprise, I received a reply back from Ken just a couple of hours later (and on a Sunday afternoon, nonetheless)! I am copying his answer here, as it is good info:

-------------------------
Adam:

I tried to call you, but the number listed did not go through.

The characteristic you showed was from lasering where the gas flow causes the material to flex while being cut.

Based on the hardness of the material extended tumbling does not remove those ridges. It does however remove the sharp edges so that safety should not have been a concern. Most people do not have a concern about it. I do however hear something about every 6 months or so.

If I can't laser the turning tools, then I will not be able to make them at all.

I believe you would find the operating end of the picks to be much smoother. When picking I don't tend to need to put a pick in a lock as far back as the slight rippling on your pick, so you should not have had an issue with that.

HPC makes there picks of a softer metal using a punch press. It is common for them to have a flashing protruding from the sides of their picks.

If you desire fully smooth picks you did the right thing. Many sportsters do so no matter what brand they purchase. If we had to hand sand them they would be unaffordable to most all of the industry and hobiests.

I hope you enjoy the quality of the materials and Handels.

Kind regards,
Ken
-----------------------

The conclusion of this one for me is that I spent an hour or two finishing out the picks in my Eagle's Nest set at the kitchen table... while I watched the kids play Legos and had a cup of tea. The results were great. The gov steel is truly a high-grade steel and finishes very well will a little extra time and skill. I'm quite thrilled with the "feel" of the set now and even more thrilled to have the additional knowledge about their production from the man-himself.

Thanks!

[smokingman]

I too have gotten a few pick tools from Petersons that had these roller coaster edges.
It must just be a machine out of spec or something, out of nine picks two were
like that and three tension tools also.
I just filed them smooth and sanded them to correct them.
I did expect better though, for the price.

[Papa Gleb]

If you noticed, peterson adds an extra step then their process which removes the flat edges which most companies have after the metal is cut out. I dont know what or how but because of this extra process, peterson picks have a triangle edge. Its not perfect but I think out of the package, compared to all of the other picks I have, its usable. Plus its much easier and faster to smooth this angle to a nice smooth finish then a flat pick.

As for the tension wrench, its a wrench so I dont think any company cares about the finish on them.

[Squelchtone]

Someone in chat was having trouble using their credit card to order on Peterson's website last Friday night, so I decided it was a good time to order a new Peterson govt hook with black rubber handle to replace the one I've had for years. My old Peterson hook had developed an arc/curve in it from years of heavy handed use and abuse, and the hook part of the pick was no longer tall enough to go under low pins effectively.

My online order was accepted just fine and I received plenty of emails during the ordering and shipping process. (Not sure why their site did not like the chat members credit card.) My order was sent out Monday and was in my PO Box Thursday morning at 8am. Everything went very smoothly.

When I got home and put the picks next to each other I discovered some differences that I wanted to share:


click the pic for full size version!

So the top one is the one I've had for at least 5 to 7 years. It's been very good to me. It says Peterson on both sides of the handle and the handle feels rubbery / slippery / grippy. I have not wanted to straighten her out until I got a replacement in the mail, but I worry that if I fidget around too much with it, the metal will fatigue and the tip will break off.

The new pick has 3 main differences:

1. it says Peterson on one side of the handle and Made in USA on the other side
2. there is more metal taken away from the width of the shank, you can see that little step down in the metal about 1/4 inch away from the handle. I see this is as a good improvement over the old design.
3. The last main difference is the material the handle is made of, it does not feel as soft or rubbery as the old one, in fact it feels like dry Bakelite plastic, so I think probably the same material as the plastic ones, or if it is rubber, they have changed the consistency and hardness of the rubber.

Looking down the thin edges of both picks, the new hooks metal shank (hmm, is this the best word for this part?) looks slightly rippled but not as bad as the tension wrench earlier in this thread looked. You can only notice it under a certain light, and running my finger over the pick feels smooth and I do not detect any burrs.

Squelchtone

[Jacob Morgan]

If you noticed, peterson adds an extra step then their process which removes the flat edges which most companies have after the metal is cut out. I dont know what or how but because of this extra process, peterson picks have a triangle edge.

The letter from Peterson stated that they tumbled the tools. Years ago I started out in a stamping plant and some parts were tumbled after stamping. The tumblers used there looked like portable cement mixers, but were made specifically for tumbling. A batch of stampings would go in and as the drum spun the parts would be picked up and dropped on the other parts. It would do that for a few hours and much smoother parts would come out. The sharp edges basically wear each other down and from slightly rounded corners. The parts also come out with a very even matte finish. Maybe that is what rounds the corners on Peterson's tools?

I have a tension wrench and a couple of picks from Peterson. The picks look great. The wrench has some ripples in it, but not enough to be anything but cosmetic issues. If it was from material flexing during manufacturing I'd think that the much thinner picks would have the problem instead of the wrench, but laser cutting is not something I have any experience with. If anyone is interested in laser cutting here are some interesting articles: http://www.thefabricator.com/?filter=article&category=lasercutting

[PowerHaus930]

Someone in chat was having trouble using their credit card to order on Peterson's website last Friday night, so I decided it was a good time to order a new Peterson govt hook with black rubber handle to replace the one I've had for years. My old Peterson hook had developed an arc/curve in it from years of heavy handed use and abuse, and the hook part of the pick was no longer tall enough to go under low pins effectively.

My online order was accepted just fine and I received plenty of emails during the ordering and shipping process. (Not sure why their site did not like the chat members credit card.) My order was sent out Monday and was in my PO Box Thursday morning at 8am. Everything went very smoothly.

When I got home and put the picks next to each other I discovered some differences that I wanted to share:


click the pic for full size version!

So the top one is the one I've had for at least 5 to 7 years. It's been very good to me. It says Peterson on both sides of the handle and the handle feels rubbery / slippery / grippy. I have not wanted to straighten her out until I got a replacement in the mail, but I worry that if I fidget around too much with it, the metal will fatigue and the tip will break off.

The new pick has 3 main differences:

1. it says Peterson on one side of the handle and Made in USA on the other side
2. there is more metal taken away from the width of the shank, you can see that little step down in the metal about 1/4 inch away from the handle. I see this is as a good improvement over the old design.
3. The last main difference is the material the handle is made of, it does not feel as soft or rubbery as the old one, in fact it feels like dry Bakelite plastic, so I think probably the same material as the plastic ones, or if it is rubber, they have changed the consistency and hardness of the rubber.

Looking down the thin edges of both picks, the new hooks metal shank (hmm, is this the best word for this part?) looks slightly rippled but not as bad as the tension wrench earlier in this thread looked. You can only notice it under a certain light, and running my finger over the pick feels smooth and I do not detect any burrs.

Squelchtone

Are you sure you ordered the correct pick? That appears to be one of Petersons Euro series picks because of the narrower shank H1-GSP is the part number. How much was the pick? If it was $8 then that is the euro style which only comes with a standard plastic handle. I think you may need to look at the website again and look at their Classic series picks. They are only available in govt steel and rubber handles H1-GSR is the part number for the pick and they are $15 each. If you look at the pictures on their site the Euro series have a narrower shank than the Classic series.

[MBI]

Looking down the thin edges of both picks, the new hooks metal shank (hmm, is this the best word for this part?)

Squelchtone

It would be accurate in this case, as one definition of "shank" is"

the shaft or stem of a tool or implement, in particular.

But I call it the "shaft", mostly because I get mildly annoyed at how often I hear the word shank misused by people. Seems every time someone can't figure out what to call any particular part of a lock or key I hear shank thrown in as a replacement. Plus I'm accustomed to using the word shank as an improvised knife, usually in terms of it having been confiscated from a prisoner or suspect.

[Joshua904]

Are you sure you ordered the correct pick? That appears to be one of Petersons Euro series picks because of the narrower shank H1-GSP is the part number. How much was the pick? If it was $8 then that is the euro style which only comes with a standard plastic handle. I think you may need to look at the website again and look at their Classic series picks. They are only available in govt steel and rubber handles H1-GSR is the part number for the pick and they are $15 each. If you look at the pictures on their site the Euro series have a narrower shank than the Classic series.

I was always under the impression blue handles were euros, purple were euro slenders, grey was non gov steel n. american (.025), black was gov steel .025.
I've been confused by his site before and never could find a definitive answer and the above.. Just gathered it from my orders and reviews on YouTube.

I can double check my "shaft profile" and see what mine looks like. (Cue the jokes)

[Squelchtone]

I paid $15 for it and the invoice says

1 (H1-GSR) Hook1 - Rubber Gov Steel

I think you're right, looking at their website, I received the $8 dollar H1-GSP Govt Steel Plastic handled pick with the euro shank. Good catch!

I'll email them photos and ask to see why the wrong physical pick was put in the shipping envelope, I'll do that on Monday...

Squelchtone

[Joshua904]

The black handle one at the top is my classic gov steel rubberized handle gem.
It has the step down as well. The grey ones are the spring steel ones, standard size and most have the same.
I don't know why your handle is hard plastic, but the profile shape may have been changed on them and he never updated the pictures.
I'd definitely ask though.

[jimu57]

I buy the electroless nickel picks from Peterson. Usually buy 6 at a time of the 4 that I use the most. I have broken those as well as the government steel. I stick with the $3 picks.

Not sure if anyone posted it but Peterson cuts their picks by laser. With small parts like picks, they vibrate during cutting. Leaves ano edge with ripples. Tumbling only removes burrs from the cut edges. If you want a smooth pick, then the finishing is up to you. I don't polish all the ones the I use.

[Daltonj21]

Someone in chat was having trouble using their credit card to order on Peterson's website last Friday night, so I decided it was a good time to order a new Peterson govt hook with black rubber handle to replace the one I've had for years. My old Peterson hook had developed an arc/curve in it from years of heavy handed use and abuse, and the hook part of the pick was no longer tall enough to go under low pins effectively.

My online order was accepted just fine and I received plenty of emails during the ordering and shipping process. (Not sure why their site did not like the chat members credit card.) My order was sent out Monday and was in my PO Box Thursday morning at 8am. Everything went very smoothly.

When I got home and put the picks next to each other I discovered some differences that I wanted to share:


click the pic for full size version!

So the top one is the one I've had for at least 5 to 7 years. It's been very good to me. It says Peterson on both sides of the handle and the handle feels rubbery / slippery / grippy. I have not wanted to straighten her out until I got a replacement in the mail, but I worry that if I fidget around too much with it, the metal will fatigue and the tip will break off.

The new pick has 3 main differences:

1. it says Peterson on one side of the handle and Made in USA on the other side
2. there is more metal taken away from the width of the shank, you can see that little step down in the metal about 1/4 inch away from the handle. I see this is as a good improvement over the old design.
3. The last main difference is the material the handle is made of, it does not feel as soft or rubbery as the old one, in fact it feels like dry Bakelite plastic, so I think probably the same material as the plastic ones, or if it is rubber, they have changed the consistency and hardness of the rubber.

Looking down the thin edges of both picks, the new hooks metal shank (hmm, is this the best word for this part?) looks slightly rippled but not as bad as the tension wrench earlier in this thread looked. You can only notice it under a certain light, and running my finger over the pick feels smooth and I do not detect any burrs.

Squelchtone

The weirdest thing to me is , if it isn't rubber the handle still runs the full length of the handle. which they don't do in the plastic. I would definitely try to keep that one either way!! I do have 2 of the plastic gems in Gov. And 1 classic in rubber. The rubber is nice but the plastic handles definitely feel tougher for 1/2 the price.

[Squelchtone]

Someone in chat was having trouble using their credit card to order on Peterson's website last Friday night, so I decided it was a good time to order a new Peterson govt hook with black rubber handle to replace the one I've had for years. My old Peterson hook had developed an arc/curve in it from years of heavy handed use and abuse, and the hook part of the pick was no longer tall enough to go under low pins effectively.

My online order was accepted just fine and I received plenty of emails during the ordering and shipping process. (Not sure why their site did not like the chat members credit card.) My order was sent out Monday and was in my PO Box Thursday morning at 8am. Everything went very smoothly.

When I got home and put the picks next to each other I discovered some differences that I wanted to share:


click the pic for full size version!

So the top one is the one I've had for at least 5 to 7 years. It's been very good to me. It says Peterson on both sides of the handle and the handle feels rubbery / slippery / grippy. I have not wanted to straighten her out until I got a replacement in the mail, but I worry that if I fidget around too much with it, the metal will fatigue and the tip will break off.

The new pick has 3 main differences:

1. it says Peterson on one side of the handle and Made in USA on the other side
2. there is more metal taken away from the width of the shank, you can see that little step down in the metal about 1/4 inch away from the handle. I see this is as a good improvement over the old design.
3. The last main difference is the material the handle is made of, it does not feel as soft or rubbery as the old one, in fact it feels like dry Bakelite plastic, so I think probably the same material as the plastic ones, or if it is rubber, they have changed the consistency and hardness of the rubber.

Looking down the thin edges of both picks, the new hooks metal shank (hmm, is this the best word for this part?) looks slightly rippled but not as bad as the tension wrench earlier in this thread looked. You can only notice it under a certain light, and running my finger over the pick feels smooth and I do not detect any burrs.

Squelchtone

The weirdest thing to me is , if it isn't rubber the handle still runs the full length of the handle. which they don't do in the plastic. I would definitely try to keep that one either way!! I do have 2 of the plastic gems in Gov. And 1 classic in rubber. The rubber is nice but the plastic handles definitely feel tougher for 1/2 the price.

You're right Daltonj21! The rubber ones are full tang and the plastic is mostly handle and only a bit of the metal shank goes into the handle.

I just called Peterson and spoke to a British sounding man who quickly asked me if my handle had 2 holes in it which it does, and he grabbed some samples and mentioned the new rubber is harder than years ago rubber like my old one, but it is still rubber, and all of their rubber handled picks are switching over to the euro undercut they just haven't updated the Classic Hook1 picture yet (as Joshua904 suggested). He was nice to enough to check a handful of them for softness and even offered me an exchange for a slightly softer one, but I'm ok with the new one, just wanted to make sure I didnt get mailed an $8 dollar pick after paying $15 bucks. He also mentioned that part of the reason the price is so different is because of all the extra stainless that is inside the rubber handle, that makes sense to me.

case solved, thanks for everyone's input =)
Squelchtone