hook or diamond

[Muskedunder]

so.. i have been picking for some months now, only spp with hooks. but i have this half diamond pick aswell, and i read how people say they could not live without their half diamond pick. so i've tried it and cant really get it to work... do you use it the same way as a hook, and for all pins? or just in the start, and finish off with a hook? and do i have the right kind of half diamond pick?

pic of my half diamond and hooks (Southord slimline):

[fgarci03]

For a long time I only used a diamond pick, since the only hook I had was a long hook. So only on very specific occasions I would use it...

Now I have a short/medium hook (the first one in your pic) and I use it more often than the diamond...

IMO a diamond is a great all occasion tool. It serves SPP and raking well enough. But most of the times I prefer the hook. I thik that's a matter of picking style and locks you face. It really depends on a lot of factors...

If you do well with the hook, use it

[ARF-GEF]

It's probably because I'm not such a good lockpicker, (real pros swear for hooks) but I love my half diamond too. I get lock to open so much easier with it. Just like Fgarci at the beginning but I'm not yet matured out of the half-diamond phase.
I'm only using a hook sometimes to "train on that tool" too.

I think it's a question of what you are accustomed to, what's your style and your taste (and as I mentioned above probably how skilled you are.)
With a hook I feel the pins less well and I get lost in the lock more easily. But that's just me and probably because I'm a bad picker who doesn't practice enough by far.

A good way to use diamonds if you haven't used them before is instead of pushing with their tip, push forward and let the slope of the triangle push the pin down. This gave me a much finer control. You can of course push with the tip too, but the method before is useful too.


Another plus for the diamond in my eye is that if I get frustrated I can start a few raking moves. That surprised me with opening few lock "out of the blue".

So I say diamond.

(I think you can make a real voting thread somehow. )

[youngpicker99]

I usually use a hook, however if there is a lock I cant open with a hook I use a half diamond so I can rake and split.

[fgarci03]

I don't think it's about skill. I'm not a great lockpicker too. I just find the hook reaching places the half diamond can't, or at least is more difficult.

In fact, I prefer the feedback the diamond gives me. But I just can open more locks with the hook

[ARF-GEF]

I'm not sure. I think it many of the very best pickers almost usually only use hooks. Often hand made ones. Some even not only not use but despise rakes.
At least from the limited number I spoke to.

[ARF-GEF]

At lest I'm concentrating on not using rakes and trying to use hooks as much has possible to force myself to learn the right technique.

[fgarci03]

Some even not only not use but despise rakes.

I'm getting pro then! I don't despise but don't really use them now

Ok I do a little. But only for those situations where I want to unlock fast. Cheap locks and so. For real lockpicking I SPP because raking may not work in all locks. SPP does. It only depends on your skill.

I believe they use hooks because of their reach. A diamond is a very versatille, but it's not the best on anything. A more experienced lockpicker uses the best pick for that specific situation.
Notice that they don't use always THE SAME hook. They use what they believe that works best for that specific lock. And the diamond is not the best for anything. It's just good at everything. So it's not very used because of that. There is always a better tool for that situation. But I believe that the diamond is the best for ALL situation.

And I don't think raking should be despised. Maybe purist lockpicking is just about the manipulation of the individual pins. But it is needed to have skill for raking some locks. And it is generally much faster.

That's just my 2 cents, and I apreciate someone to correct me.

[Muskedunder]

so except the preference thingy the diamond is also used as rakes. then ill stay with the hooks. if i am gonna learn this, i need to do it properly (spp), its not about being fast, but being elegant. bolt cutters are fast =D

[fgarci03]

Raking is, IMO, a proper picking technique. Don't hold back in doing it. But not every lock can be raked open. Use whatever tool fits you. I use the hook because I can open more locks with it than a diamond. If it was the other way around I would use the diamond instead!

[Muskedunder]

I really didn't mean that it wasn't a proper technique. I just find it to be more of a luck thing for me, like I am not in controll over whats happening inside the lock.

[ARF-GEF]

Exactly, I'm not a purist as I said I use rakes sometimes, but I agree that concentrating on hooks is probably the best way to get good at SPP.
It's also a hard rocky road, raking is often faster and easier, so I agree with fgarci on that point (also that raking is proper technique)

But as I said it's a a subjective realm of taste and personal conviction.

[daniel22747]

I tend to only use the small half diamond on small keyways, otherwise I use a short hook.

[fgarci03]

I just find it to be more of a luck thing for me

It depends. On the begining yes. It's a luck thing. But you will soon find that there is a proper technique to rake.

I haven't really trained raking much too. But I can say I can rake many more locks opened than in the begining. Because you can in fact "visualise" a bit of what's going inside the lock.
Of course it's a bit clumbsier. But you get better as you do it more often, so that means it's not just luck.

In fact, raking is used a lock to aid SPP. You rake the lock a bit, and then finish SPP. In a 5 pin lock, if you set 3 pins in 2 or 3 raking strokes, it's much quicker to open!

But as I said it's a a subjective realm of taste and personal conviction.

Completely agree.

If you don't like raking, there's no point in doing it. But don't let yourself from doing just because of those reasons. It opens a lot of doors I think (and this IS a metaphor!). I'll tell you 2 stories about why it's good to rake:

1. To show your friends and family.
NOW, BE CAREFULL! It's not as a show off thing (there are a lot of posts about this, here's one). But of course close family and friends will know about your hobby. How about you demonstrate how (in)secure is a lock? I had that situation once. Took about 3minutes to pick a lock similar to what a friend has at home. He then said: "Yeah, 3min.. With people passing by, pressure upon you, kneeling down on my door... You couldn't break into my house easily".

Then I raked it in 5secs. He changed the lock. The impact of picking a lock in a few seconds is very big.

2. To be a confidence builder.
I don't know about you. But when I'm not in a good shape I grab my confidence locks (those wich you can pick quite easily). They give me confidence to keep going.
Some locks I can rake open but some times they give me a very hard time on SPP. So hard that I suddently don't care anymore about picking them. I just want them F-ING opened! Instead of grabing other locks, I just rake it open, close and start again. It works really well on keeping me up. Kinda like when you are playing video games, get stuck in a level, use cheats to get through it, and then go back and do it again without cheats?

Of course this is, as stated before, a personality thing.

But I do agree with you about being elegant. It's really good to feel in control and know exactly when the lock is about to open.

[Mikeh727]

I would have to agree with pretty much everything that ARF-GEF said in his post. I prefer the half-diamond because I'm not proficient with the hook (yet). I do know that there are locks that I won't be able to pick with the half-diamond. I made a cut-away 5-pin lock to show my son how a lock works, and the last pin is very deep set while the fourth pin is shallow set. Even watching as I picked, there was no way I was going to be able to set the last pin without oversetting the fourth pin. So while I prefer the half-diamond, I need to learn the hook better.

I also like the technique of 'sliding' the half-diamond under a pin and setting shallow set pins that way. I suppose that is technically raking, but it works great.

-M