Question for all of the Pros here... (are Bogotas cheating?)

[Squelchtone]

Are using bogotas considered "cheating"? This really is a tongue in cheek question, so let me explain.

I am very new here, and started with a set of homebrew bogotas. And they work amazingly well (many thanks to raimundo for sharing the tutorials). So far with the locks I have available I can get 80% of them open with no problem. But, I know that this has way more to do with the amazing design of the tools than with my (lack of) skills as a lockpicker.

So, when someone (like me) claims to be "good" at picking locks when it is a result of tools and not skill, is that frowned upon?

I am enjoying the sport as a whole, and plan on getting better, but at this point I will admit that I have no skill. And I still haven't figured out what this "feedback of the picks" thing is about

Just looking for general opinions, and the perception of the community as a whole. Thanks

[ARF-GEF]

Well I think in your case it's not really actually picking. It's like driving a car and claiming you to be a good runner because you are fast.

What post people mean by picking is more SPP=Single pin picking,when you manipulate the pins one by one.

As for opening 80% of locks: if you continue to disregard skills and keep on only using a great tool you will eventually hit a glass ceiling. (and sooner rather than later) High security lock usually can only be picked by SPP, so to achieve higher levels you will have to start learning SPP.
Raking is useful, but only to an extent. It opens some locks, but only knwoing to rake and not knwing to SPP is a very much imbalanced knowledge. It gives you an illusion ofbeing a great picker, althoug you rely on tehchnology. (see the car and running analogy I started with:) )
In fact the best pickers I knwo rely on SPP much more than on raking. Purists even dislike raking.

Nonetheless congratulations on opening the locks, raking also requires some skill and practice to master
Keep up the good work and try getting into SPP.

[subver]

I'm not a pro, but I think as a hobby raking is sort of "cheating" - as a profession it's great. To me, and I'm sure many other, lock picking (as a hobby) is about the puzzle and being able to figure out how to open it pin by pin.
I own the bogota titan set but I don't really use them.. I do keep them in my wallet for emergencies, though. For my hobby it's all SPP.
Really, though, it's up to what you find enjoyable! If you enjoy it, have fun, but I agree with what ARF-GEF said about hitting a glass ceiling as well.. you will come to a point where raking won't work, so learning SPP from there on out will be even harder, you'd probably have to start at the bottom again.
Anyway, that's just my two cents.

[easy-e]

I am enjoying the sport as a whole, and plan on getting better, but at this point I will admit that I have no skill. And I still haven't figured out what this "feedback of the picks" thing is about

Don't be so hard on yourself. Get yourself a medium hook and start practicing SPP. You can read about feedback and techniques but until you start, it won't make sense.

Nonetheless congratulations on opening the locks, raking also requires some skill and practice to master

^This. I don't consider raking cheating...it's just another skill to add to your arsenal. I used to do a lot of racking with my Bogotas but I'm out of practice. I liked the regular bogotas so I bought the original titan flats that came with a 3 hump, single hump, and a small hook. That hook ended up being one of my favorite picks.

[IndigoChild]

Funny thing is I actually prefer SPP with my DeForrest after starting the same way you did. I was a raker. I could open most locks if given some time. But I had to drill a Medeco not too long ago. I was gung ho about using my rake first, but when I had to destroy a perfectly good medeco I thought two things.

"I could have picked that if I practiced."
and
"I just cost this guy money because my skills are amateur"

I immediately ordered a practice set of locks and now I can open just about any residential and commercial lock thrown my way. It takes a little practice and security pins are a nightmare for me now. But with practice soon I will open anything.

[bembel]

Raking IS a skill. But with growing interest in lockpicking, you will soon learn that not all locks can be opened by raking them.
SPP is far more challenging, but you will be able to open most locks with it. You can even combine both techniques.

[bembel]

P.S. A descriptive thread title might be more helpful than "Question for Pros".

[fgarci03]

@gr8tbaldone:

ARF-GEF pretty much said it all. But you can look at our "little discussion" in this post: viewtopic.php?p=413275#p413275

That is a topic I find very interest in, so many thanks for bringing it up again


And congrats on your picks!
For a proper practice in SPP, check Digital Blue's Beginer Lockpicking Exercise. That should get you going

[Squelchtone]

P.S. A descriptive thread title might be more helpful than "Question for Pros".

I agree. I have edited the title. Also working on making the post Edit button work better for users, it is screwed up right now.

Thanks
Squelchtone

[ARF-GEF]

"I just cost this guy money because my skills are amateur"

I immediately ordered a practice set of locks

Wow indigochild that is a very respectable approach. I wish more professionals were as professional as you are

[GWiens2001]

"I just cost this guy money because my skills are amateur"

I immediately ordered a practice set of locks

Wow indigochild that is a very respectable approach. I wish more professionals were as professional as you are

I agree. Have dealt with Indigochild before, and he is definitely respectable and respect worthy. A good example.

Gordon

[gr8tbaldone]

P.S. A descriptive thread title might be more helpful than "Question for Pros".

P.S. A descriptive thread title might be more helpful than "Question for Pros".

I agree. I have edited the title. Also working on making the post Edit button work better for users, it is screwed up right now.

Thanks
Squelchtone

Very good point. Thanks for that

Well I think in your case it's not really actually picking. It's like driving a car and claiming you to be a good runner because you are fast.
...
Keep up the good work and try getting into SPP.

That's the point I was trying to get at - your analogy is so much better than my attempted explanation.

And thanks for all of the input, and suggestions - it is very much appreciated. I obviously need to do some more research on SPP, picks and locks in general. And practice.

[ARF-GEF]

I obviously need to do some more research on SPP, picks and locks in general. And practice.

Practice is the most important but interest alone is already a very good start:)

[IndigoChild]

Wow indigochild that is a very respectable approach. I wish more professionals were as professional as you are

I agree. Have dealt with Indigochild before, and he is definitely respectable and respect worthy. A good example.

Gordon

I cant tell you guys how much I appreciate you telling me this. A lot of hard work and honesty goes a long way. I think you should always consider the customer before you make your money. Try to find an approach that will make you both happy.

[ARF-GEF]

A lot of hard work and honesty goes a long way. I think you should always consider the customer before you make your money. Try to find an approach that will make you both happy.

Now, that should be part of the locksmith oath every lockie should make before letting him work.