Lockpicktools Falle Type Picks

[dosman]

Go Shrub!

[timal]

I just love all the talk , I am a hobby picker and in my Biased opinion a good one. Good or bad the topic stands. Would you purchase the set or not. ? I have had wonderful luck with the 'copied' set. Hey, whatever, if someone I trusted on this site said buy the set I would. So, far I have hear stay with what you have. Let's keep talking !

[lockjaw]

I will finish this rather long and perhaps repetative post by saying play nice, dont call out everyone else on the site because you dont like somthing thats been said, discuss things nicely and put a polite and friendly opinion across, to act like the member base is beneath you or anyone else is simply not the way the forum works,

I had an equally lengthy point-by-point response but I decided to discard it.

Your response is wounded and like a wounded dog you're snapping indiscriminately. Much of your post is you arguing with yourself. You attribute arguments to me that you have invented and you proceed to refute them. There is no point in responding because your verbose response is largely disconnected from my post -- it's a plaintive and angered stream of consciousness. You engage in much conjecture, speculation, and mind reading and you try to pass it off as evidence for your case.

The central point of my post is that neither you, I or your friends are of the standard of John Falle. If you want to push a position that contradicts one of the leading figures in the covert entry field then you will need argument and evidence to do so. Asserting your status as a "working locksmith" or telling me who you have met at conferences or that I'm a prick doesn't do anything for your position.

All you are doing is asserting one of the prevailing orthodoxies on this forum namely that John Falle despite his stature in the field, experience and genius is flat wrong about picking pin tumbler locks. This isn't a tenable position. Just for its incongruity alone it is highly improbable. If there were no "sour grapes" involved then your position would be accompanied by argumentation i.e. reasons.

[melvin2001]

lockjaw you are a prick... you assume that people actually care what you think, which i assure you they dont any more then you care what i think. so seriously... shut up about falle. i understand you like falle and think very highly of his tools, but if everyone here chooses to hate him and his work then thats their prerogative just as much as it is yours to like him. so seriously.... get over it, get over yourself, and if you dont like it go somewhere else.

[Romstar]

Ya know what lockjaw, I will put myself up against John Falle, and Barry Wells, and anyone else you want to drag along. I personally have over 20 years of lock picking experience on a wide range of locks and systems. I started doing this when I was a kid, and even if I was employed doing other things as you so gleefully pointed out, as if it meant something, I never stopped picking locks. Will I "win" against these gentlemen? It's possible, but then again I may not. A lot can happen in a lock as you should know.

Hell, I even have carpel tunnel syndrome, and I can't feel as well as I used to. I do this every single day, day in, day out. In the rare cases where I am not called upon to pick in a professional capacity I practice.

Why? Because I like picking locks.

That's also why I am on this forum. It's why I came back even after my illness, and the problems it caused. I like teaching people, and I happen to think I am pretty good at it. Some other people think the same way.
While it is true that not everyone may like my style, I don't think that I have ever stated that my way is the ONLY way. I have very clear cut opinions on certain things that are the result of my experience. Some people have other experiences, and that is just fine.

I have been making tools for years for the likes of the RCMP, CSIS and other agencies as well as private locksmiths and others. I could care less if you have heard my name before, I could care less what you think or how you feel about me, my tools or anything else for that matter.

Do us all a big favor, either learn to play nice with the rest of the kiddies, or take your newsgroup, trash talking, psychobable trolling ass out of here and let the people who really enjoy this site do so without having to deal with the likes of you.

In the meantime,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Romstar/howabout.jpg

Sincerely,
Romstar

Note to mods and other users: My appologies, but I felt it necessary, and I do hope its allowed to stay for a while.

[timal]

As for me I love this place.

[lockjaw]

lockjaw you are a prick... you assume that people actually care what you think, which i assure you they dont any more then you care what i think. so seriously... shut up about falle. i understand you like falle and think very highly of his tools, but if everyone here chooses to hate him and his work then thats their prerogative just as much as it is yours to like him. so seriously.... get over it, get over yourself, and if you dont like it go somewhere else.

If having a dissenting view makes me a prick then I'm glad to be one. I'd rather be a prick in that case than a member of a herd: "Barry Wels good, John Falle bad; Barry Wels good, John Falle Bad"

You're right, I don't care what you think because I don't know what you think. You haven't actually communicated much thinking to me.

By your scant logic it is also my prerogative to defend my views against criticism and that's exactly what I've done.

[melvin2001]

being dissenting doesn't make you a prick.. being a pompous asshat makes you a prick.

i dont walk into a room every day "I am better then all you jerks... you should all agree with me as such!" and then proceed to pick apart every little thing people say. you just get off on tearing apart peoples statements and ideas like anyone gives a shit that you dont like what they have to say... its called politic... you know? its that thing where you don't just be huge jerk with a sandy vagina just to be a jerk...

[lockjaw]

Ya know what lockjaw, I will put myself up against John Falle, and Barry Wells, and anyone else you want to drag along.

Good for you. Unfortunately I don't act as an agent for these people so I can't organise a competition.

I personally have over 20 years of lock picking experience on a wide range of locks and systems. I started doing this when I was a kid, and even if I was employed doing other things as you so gleefully pointed out, as if it meant something, I never stopped picking locks. Will I "win" against these gentlemen? It's possible, but then again I may not. A lot can happen in a lock as you should know.

Yes I've read all that before. Do you ever get bored telling people how great you are? You're plumbing the depths of tedium with your interminable stories about your brilliance.

Hell, I even have carpel tunnel syndrome, and I can't feel as well as I used to. I do this every single day, day in, day out. In the rare cases where I am not called upon to pick in a professional capacity I practice.

Wanker's cramp? Playing Warcraft all day?

You must be a great conversationalist. Is the flow of conversation: (a) tell everyone how great I am; (b) tell everyone how great I am despite my many disabilities.

Why?

Gee, I wonder why, so many possibilities on a forum called lockpicking101. I'm perplexed...

Because I like picking locks.

...and tellng everyone how great you are (despite your ample disabilities).

That's also why I am on this forum. It's why I came back even after my illness, and the problems it caused. I like teaching people, and I happen to think I am pretty good at it. Some other people think the same way.

...and because you like tellng everyone how great you are (despite your ample disabilities).

While it is true that not everyone may like my style, I don't think that I have ever stated that my way is the ONLY way. I have very clear cut opinions on certain things that are the result of my experience. Some people have other experiences, and that is just fine.

True but barely conceivable. Why wouldn't anyone like some big fat dude that looks like he plays Warcraft all day (and night) and craps on about how great he is (despite his ample disabilities) at every possible opportunity and has a bad history as a merchant. What is the world coming to? I must be some kind of degenerate beast.

I have been making tools for years for the likes of the RCMP, CSIS and other agencies as well as private locksmiths and others.

Yes, I've read that also and you forgot to add that you do this despite your ample disabilities.

I could care less if you have heard my name before, I could care less what you think or how you feel about me, my tools or anything else for that matter.

So you'll extend me the courtesy of at least entertaining the notion that I too have little regard for you, your opinions and your struggles against the odds?

Do us all a big favor, either learn to play nice with the rest of the kiddies, or take your newsgroup, trash talking, psychobable trolling ass out of here and let the people who really enjoy this site do so without having to deal with the likes of you.

Physician heal thyself. I don't think you're in a position to dispense advice on upright and proper behaviour. You're upset that I challenged your copious crap talk? You'd like a forum where you can hold court and repeatedly tell everyone how great you are (despite your ample disabilities).

In the meantime,

Wow, canned humour. Your banality extends to your attempts at being insulting and funny. Do you have "joke stickers" on your car, you know, "My Other Car is a Ferrari", "Don't Follow Me, I'm Lost!"?

Sincerely,

There's nohing sincere about any of your posts.

Note to mods and other users: My appologies, but I felt it necessary, and I do hope its allowed to stay for a while.

Your'e so earnest.

[lockjaw]

being dissenting doesn't make you a prick.. being a pompous asshat makes you a prick.

i dont walk into a room every day "I am better then all you jerks... you should all agree with me as such!" and then proceed to pick apart every little thing people say. you just get off on tearing apart peoples statements and ideas like anyone gives a shit that you dont like what they have to say... its called politic... you know?

You're just a sook that can't take any criticism even when it is impersonal. I pick apart poppy _ and I defend my position. Given that you can't construct a sentence I'm not sure what being a "popmpus asshat" consists of in your worldview. Are people that can spell, construct sentences and argue a point "popmpus asshats". Again if that makes me a prick then I'm glad to be counted as one.

its that thing where you don't just be huge jerk with a sandy vagina just to be a jerk...

That's a retarded pseudo-sentence. Genitals seem to occupy your thinking. Your banner has a penis reference and now you're trying to tell me something about "sandy vaginas". Are the Sandy Vaginas a place where you go to drive your 4x4 (SUV) and camp? Are you 14 years old?

[Legion303]

All you are doing is asserting one of the prevailing orthodoxies on this forum namely that John Falle despite his stature in the field, experience and genius is flat wrong about picking pin tumbler locks.

I appear to have missed this argument from Shrub. Would you be so kind as to quote it in full context for me? Thank you.

-steve

[melvin2001]

so wait... your basing your argument against me on the fact that i cant construct a sentence? this is an online forum not a spelling contest, nor is it a writing contest. its a place to share ideas and generally get along and help other people. stick to the topic please. (I.E. stop attacking how i say it, and start explaining why you are such a pompous jerk)

i take no offense to anything you have said about falle and the people that criticize him, mainly because i have never used any of his tools and have no opinion on the matter one way or another. what i DO take issue to is the fact that you have an air of superiority about you when you are no better then anyone else. no one else on this forum repeatedly bitches about the forum... and still continues to visit. i have seen some of the stuff you post and some of it is generally helpful, the rest is just combative propaganda. I also take issue with you repeatedly attacking people completely unprovoked except that you don't like what they have to say or how they say it.

as for my obsession with reproductive organs it can be summed up like this. my screen name is melvin2001... which is the name i gave to my penis in 5th grade and has been my screen name since that time period. don't act like you didn't name your penis at one point of your life either, we all do it. I put the penis joke in my sig because... well... its funny... as for your sandy vagina, that is just genuine concern. I don't want you to get an infection. then you would just be more irritable then you already are. if you can really draw the conclusion that i am obsessed with reproductive organs from that... then well... idk what to tell you man.


P.S. Your still a prick.

[illusion]

OK.
_____________________________________________________________
John Falle's tools are nice *fact*
John Falle makes some impressive decoders *fact*
John Falle's pickset needs to be heavily de burred when you get it *fact*
John Falle, is highly respected and is a good picker *fact*
Barry Wells is highly respected and is also a good picker *fact*

These are the facts.
______________________________________________________________
John Falle is better than anybody on this site *unproven generalisation*
John Falle and Barry Wells know more than everyone else *unproven generalisation*
The Falle set is the best picking set on Earth *unproven generalisation*

These are claims you have made, but they are not proven, and neither are they likely to be proven.
______________________________________________________________

Please provide some proof of what you claim, otherwise I am not going to take you seriously. You use some nice vocabulary and I did like some of the word patterns, but you seem to be ranting and intentionally trying to annoy people by making unfounded statements.

Thanks for reading,

Ben.

[UWSDWF]

Ya know what lockjaw, I will put myself up against John Falle, and Barry Wells, and anyone else you want to drag along.

Good for you. Unfortunately I don't act as an agent for these people so I can't organise a competition.

Sir, I believe you were mistaken as that, through both personally knowing and have a basic concept of the English language, one can tell that the original statement did not make any sort of request. This sort of mistake, although understandable in these circumstances, creates for unnecessary tension and sets a poor reflection of yourself. For further information please note that 'anyone else you want to drag along' would be in reference to your unauthorized name dropping in a prior post and not, as you seem to believe, a request for competition.

I personally have over 20 years of lock picking experience on a wide range of locks and systems. I started doing this when I was a kid, and even if I was employed doing other things as you so gleefully pointed out, as if it meant something, I never stopped picking locks. Will I "win" against these gentlemen? It's possible, but then again I may not. A lot can happen in a lock as you should know

Yes I've read all that before. Do you ever get bored telling people how great you are? You're plumbing the depths of tedium with your interminable stories about your brilliance.

I believe you need to re-read the original post on this, the OP (or in layman’s terms for you the original post(er)), was in fact was giving you background information, resume if you will, in this manner he illustrates where the knowledge is coming from. This is done to create an idea of his authority on the subject. As a side note you seem to be lacking any sort of biographical information, although reading your posts indicate to me that bibliographical would be more appropriate. Futhermore you seem to be dreging up more personal opinion then fact, ‘plumbing the depths of tedium’ although very cute of you does not suit the reply you attempt to be making.

Hell, I even have carpel tunnel syndrome, and I can't feel as well as I used to. I do this every single day, day in, day out. In the rare cases where I am not called upon to pick in a professional capacity I practice.

Wanker's cramp? Playing Warcraft all day?
You must be a great conversationalist. Is the flow of conversation: (a) tell everyone how great I am; (b) tell everyone how great I am despite my many disabilities.

This statement leads me to believe that you do not understand what carpel tunnel syndrome is or are simply lacking the necessary interpersonal skills that are required to converse in everyday life. It also appears that you are summarizing personal traits that you could not have possibly experienced with out personal contact with the OP that you are commenting, in doing so you seem to be creating a false sense of reality. I will assume at this point that, whether do to poor parenting or lack of social contact do to being an excessive introvert, that you simple do not grasp the aforementioned medical condition, so I will explain it to you.
Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) is a medical condition in which the median nerve is compressed at the wrist. The median nerve passes through the carpal tunnel, a canal in the wrist that is surrounded by bone on three sides, and a fibrous sheath (the flexor retinaculum) on the other. In addition to the nerve, nine tendons, the flexor tendons, of the hand pass through this canal. The median nerve can be compressed by a decrease in the size of the canal and/or an increase in the size of the contents, i.e. the flexor tendons. Symptoms include paresthesia (a burning and tingling in the fingers, especially of the thumb and index and middle fingers), numbness, difficulty gripping and making a fist, dropping objects, and weakness.(ref. Wiki)

Why?

Gee, I wonder why, so many possibilities on a forum called lockpicking101. I'm perplexed...

This is a misquoted rhetorical question. Let me explain what a rhetorical question, as you concept of it appears to be lacking. It is a question to which no answer is expected, this is often used for effect, and I do hope you share this with your classmates, as this is a very good technique to use in compositions.

Because I like picking locks.

...and tellng everyone how great you are (despite your ample disabilities).

Again this is the part of the previously misquoted rhetorical question; you remember our talk about that, right? (see I used one just now.) Also I did not see what disabilities or note of abilities or greatness that you speak of in the OP.

That's also why I am on this forum. It's why I came back even after my illness, and the problems it caused. I like teaching people, and I happen to think I am pretty good at it. Some other people think the same way.

...and because you like tellng everyone how great you are (despite your ample disabilities).

Again you seem to be misunderstanding what a personal explanation or biographical information is, for further assistance with this please consult your English teacher.



AT this Point it appears that your post turns purely derogatory, so please note; Forum rule 9. Flaming other posters is not in permitted on any forum and rule 15. Trolling will get you banned. Such behavior is deplorable. Shame on you.
Also I am now requesting that all of your prior statements made on this on other posts be substantiated with facts (as well as an appropriate bibliography) and in cases where you are quoting an individual the entire quote be displayed, this is do to the issue you seem to have with misquoting for what appears personal means.
Your lack of co-operation will be self-acknowledgement that you are both a plagiarizer and here with the purpose of trolling and/or flaming, both of which is unacceptable. Also please learn how and use the quote tags appropriately, there is a sticky in the general info. area on said subject, this will remove much confusion from your posts.
I also suggest that you provide a detailed resume with references for the inspection of forum members, as this will end debate to the authenticity of your “knowledge”.

Have a nice day,
UWSDWF

[lockjaw]

John Falle is better than anybody on this site *unproven generalisation*

No, it's a deduction based on fact. Given that John Falle is internationally preeminent in the field of covert entry then at the very least he must be as good as anyone on this site. Whether he is "better" than everybody on this site depends on the probability that someone with the skills and knowledge of John Falle is spending their leisure time helping teenagers make picks out of hacksaw blades and providing tips on picking the Masterlock #1. The likelihood of this is very small.

John Falle and Barry Wells know more than everyone else *unproven generalisation*

I'd add Marc Tobias to the list and I'd rephrase that to John Falle and Marc Tobias know more than everyone on this forum about covert entry. Barry Wels is a most probably better lockpicker than anyone on this forum for the same reason as above.

The worlds intelligence agencies come to Tobias and Falle for instruction on covert entry. Falle has developed more decoding tools than any other one person and Tobias has written the one and only encyclopedia on covert entry. It follows that these two men are authorities in the field of covert entry. Again, it is unlikely that there is some unknown, unheard of covert entry expert equal in stature to Falle and Tobias that spends his/her leisure time helping kids make bump keys. It's possible but it is highly unlikely.

The Falle set is the best picking set on Earth *unproven generalisation*

Possibly the Milky Way... If this is to be false then there must exist some secret pick set that hasn't gone to market that is made of superior materials, has a superior design and is accompanied by a superior lock picking method. Again this is highly improbable. That would be the unicorn argument. You are asking me to prove that unicorns don't exist.

These are claims you have made, but they are not proven, and neither are they likely to be proven.

They are valid and reasonable deductions.

Please provide some proof of what you claim, otherwise I am not going to take you seriously. You use some nice vocabulary and I did like some of the word patterns, but you seem to be ranting and intentionally trying to annoy people by making unfounded statements.

It isn't possible to prove a negative. I can't prove that unicorns don't exist all that I can do is propose that since none have been found to date as each day passes the probability that unicorns do exist becomes slimmer.

Your argument appears to rest on the probability of
(a) the existence of some secret society of uber lock pickers;
(b) the uber lock pickers being uber yet not marketing their skills;
(c) the uber lock pickers deciding to spend their leisure time dispensing banal advice about deburring picks and using silicon based lubricant in place of graphite.

Sure that is possible but it is highly unlikely. That John Falle and Marc Tobias (and the others that I have listed and a few more that I didn't which are referenced by Tobias) are the uber pickers -- the covert entry experts -- is much more likely since there is evidence of their skill and knowledge. It isn't a secret who these people are they appear in many of the video and audio clips on LSS+. The question then remains of what is the probability that someone like Harry Sher is on lockpicking101. He may be but it is unlikely that someone that makes a living through instruction is actively devaluing his course content by divulging content on a site where most of the member are in all likelihood under 18. Of course it is possible but it is unlikely. I can't prove that Harry Sher is on lockpicking101.com any more than I can prove that Unicorns don't exist. There is no proof in these cases there is only probability.

My position is perfectly reasonable and thought through. It's vanity that drives the idea that there are people like Mark Bates, John Falle and Harry Sher on this forum. Vanity is a seductive goddess and it appears that many of you have been seduced. On the basis of content I estimate that the vast bulk of th members of this foum are male teenagers. Next come the working locksmiths who do NDE as part of their daily work amongst all the other common locksmithing tasks and the NDE work is ordinary i.e. common residential locks and autos. Next come the hobbyists and again its unlikely that there any Locksport title holders on this forum that are hiding and then there are the try-hard status seekers like Romstar who do lots of posturing and bragging about all sorts of things. What would motivate a genuine expert to post (I'm sure the lurkers would comprise various law enforcement officers) on a forum like this. It is really bizarre that anyone would hold such an idea. It's the same as saying Donald Knuth posts on comp.programming. It's a silly childish idea and I'm taking flak for saying so. It's been like telling a child Santa Claus doesn't exist.