Has anyone heard of the King and Queen Pick

[Romstar]

I've noticed that with many, many hacksaw blades there is a strength problem.

I suppose it's what you call bend and set, but to me it should never happen.

My picks will bend past 45 degree and then spring back to normal. I've had a lot of problems getting hacksaw blades to do this trick.

Thanks for answering.

Romstar

[PYRO1234321]

You must be using high speed steel blades (HSS) or other variation. Carbon steel (CS) blades will bend >90 degreed over 4" with no deformation and a full blade can touch end to end with no deformation (and thats the super-duper cheap ones, 10 cents). Now once you crawl into the 100's of degrees they will snap with a 4" section, but even then the edges of the break are often still straight.

[salzi684]

Why would you need to be able to bend your picks that far?

[Romstar]

It's not that I want to bend a pick that far, the point is it shouldn't deform under usage or potential abuse.

Severe intentional deformation is a different problem. However, some of the steel I have tried can't handle being used in a keyway. These were hacksaw blades.

I guess it's back to the spring steel and shim stock for me. As well as this really, really nice mirrored stainless I just got.

As soon as I have made a few new ones, I'll post a few pictures.

[PYRO1234321]

Why would you need to be able to bend your picks that far?

In case you have to pick around corners......

Of course you would never subject a pick to that type of bending (or any real amout of bending at all). It was more of a material characteristic description.

[salzi684]

Most of the picks that I have bought wont even take that kind of abuse, have you ever tried rytans? They get bent just pushing up on the pins.

[Romstar]

Rytans bend in use?

Man, that's nasty.

I've never used SouthOrd, or anything other than HPC.

The majority of my tools are home made, or HPC made.

It's a short coming in my experience I guess.

Anyway, I don't think I would like a pick that bent while in use.

[salzi684]

Its not really a problem with the full size picks but with the mini picks it is a problem although, with the diminutive size of the picks I guess it is to be expected.

[Romstar]

Well, if you get a look at my pick set at the bottom link you will see that they were designed with very narrow shanks. Much more like the "new" mini picks than the traditional style.

These picks do not bend up, down or sideways under use and as I said, can be bent to 45 degrees and return to their original shape.

Only two of the original 12 have broken, and that was due to my overheating them when I ground them out.

The link:
http://www.geocities.com/romstar_orion/lockpicks/

Tonight, I had two test picks fail in a miserable and spectacular manner. the first pick wouldn't hold it's temper, and was almost as if it were made of plastic. The second pick was so hard it shattered. Both of these were made from two different types of hacksaw blades.

I did however have excellent results making a new set of tension wrenches from the material used to secure windshield wipers. Many thanks to the people who suggested this material. Tomorrows project, rake tines while I wait for my new shipment of spring steel.

[Morpheus0101]

Thanks for those pictures Romstar, I've actually already made a snake pick that closely reassembles the king, though this was just chance. But it certainly works and is my favourite pick...
I think I'll be having a go at these two, hopfully I'll get them precise.

[PYRO1234321]

Tonight, I had two test picks fail in a miserable and spectacular manner. the first pick wouldn't hold it's temper, and was almost as if it were made of plastic. The second pick was so hard it shattered. Both of these were made from two different types of hacksaw blades.

I'm curious, when you reffered to "holding it's temper", did you heat the pick and try to cool it? From my experience, hacksaw blades that have been made into picks should never be heated intentionally. Even when grinding, a slight overheat on a thin section like a pick shaft will ruin the metal and make it soft like you described. on the otherhand if you attempt to temper the business end of a pick (by heating and cooling), it will often become very brittle. ideally the metal should be kept cool as possible with periodic water dunks and no extensive amounts of grinding that will allow heat to build up in the metal. the final product should have the same properties as the metal you started with.

As a side note, a fine grinding wheel will impart heat faster than a coarse one (more surface contact over time) when compared to removing the same amount of material. so if only a fine grinder is available, you will have to cool more often and have less contact times.

[Chucklz]

Additionally, as you grind the pick thinner, it will heat up faster. When grinding picks, I have a few rules that I stick to. When beginning I use a 2 count rule. I dunk for 2 counts after EVERY 2 counts on the wheel. Whhen I get whatever Im grinding down to about a 3mm thinkness, I hold the pick as close to the grinding wheel as I feel my fingers should go (Be careful, and dont wear long sleeves etc). I would not recommend that anyone who is inexperienced with a grinder get too close to the wheel. But, the instant I feel any warmth at all in the pick, it gets 2 counts in the water. Even though this sounds like it would take a long time to grind a pick, I can do the grinding for a hook or a half diamond in about 2 minutes and I do take my time.
Good luck, and stay safe--- wear goggles!

[Romstar]

I've never liked using hacksaw blades. I wasn't convinced that they would make good picks, and most of the pictures I saw of such picks were quite bad.

After having used the last of my spring steel, and having to wait for a new supply of sufficient width and thickness I decided to raid the tool supply and try hacksaw blades.

Now, most likely the blades I tried simply weren't up to the task, and my posted problems were the result.

I've been using that darn grinder for so long it's not funny, my technique is very similar to chucklz. My quench tray will either hold water or oil depending on the material I am working. I can almost guarantee that the metal didn't get too hot.

Despite the fact that I should be wearing gloves, it takes away any feel you have for the metal. I never have to file my nails, since the grinder almost always takes care of it.


I can't overstate what Chucklz said about safety glasses. There are too many times when sparks, metal filings, or wire (I use a wire wheel often) come flying at your face. Depending on my mood sometimes I even use a face shield.

As for the temper of the metal, I never heat the tools. It simply happened that the two different blades had those characteristics. One was softer than sin, and the other so brittle that it shattered.

I now have some new material that arrived a bit early. I will have some new pictures for you all soon.

[stealthweasle]

Hey,
those 2 picks look awesome. Does anyone know where to buy them because I want them

[Romstar]

Hey,
those 2 picks look awesome. Does anyone know where to buy them because I want them

Outside of a British supplier whom I believe isd no longer in business, there is no place to buy these any longer.

I make them, and I am sure that a few others do as well. You can make them as well if you have the materials and tools.

Romstar