Has anyone heard of the King and Queen Pick

by **yungning** » 1 Jun 2004 23:10

romstar...

i am really curious about what the words are on the top and bottom paragraphs of that king and queen diagrams.
are they instructions or something else?

thanks

jamesp

by **David_Parker** » 2 Jun 2004 0:45

Yungning, try clicking on the image. If that doesn't work, try this:

"It is with greath pride tha SAK introduces a student to his 'KING' and 'QUEEN'-the two picks that will, he claims, open 60 percent of all locks. The following diagram is drawn to scale, and also indicates the 2 picks can be used:

(Insert image)

"The above diagrams are not to scale but to represent two picks that have uses with great success on both North American and European lock designs. While these picks are based on the SAK European system, SAK has a huge admiration of the YALE lock and as such these picks have proven to be extremely effective. Scale the diagrams to fit standard pick blanks and use in one of two manners:
1. Make a standard snake or rake pick.
2. In a lifting technique: IE: insert the picks into the keyway and lift vertically while applying torsion.
Use a very slight back and forth motion, if the pick does not succeed reset the lock and vary the insertion distance.

Having used both techniques I have found the rake technique to be best and only required insertion technique on certain very high tolerance European and Asian locks.

by **topsk8er** » 2 Jun 2004 0:49

could someone post a template of thier home made king/queen picks plz =)

by **Romstar** » 2 Jun 2004 1:43

Use the images provided in the main diagram, and scale them in your favorite image editor.

If you have any idea of the spacing of the yale lock, you will know how big to make it.

Adjust spacing to suit other brands. Most will respond to the YALE spacing, however some prefer closer or wider spacing. The depths will obviously take care of themselves.

If it really becomes an issue, I will post a new set of pick templates for the king and queen. Ready to grind onto your steel.

Romstar

by **swiftden** » 16 Jun 2004 3:19

Hello Romstar, Im swift and have read numerous articles in which you have posted. Could you please tel me what size stock you use in spring steel and what sort of places supply it ?
I tried sourcing one of these flat plumbers snakes mentioned in another thread with no luck .

Any information would be appreciated.

Swift
South Australia

by **Chucklz** » 16 Jun 2004 10:46

www.smallparts.com stocks a variety of spring steel stock
http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/fss.cfm

A thickness of 0.020- 0.025 should be quite serviceable
Based on the handles I like best, I recommend 1/2 inch width (although 3/8 is closer to the SouthOrd handle dimension)
A 6 inch length will do you just fine for most picks, possibly even a Falle style double sided pick. I would however buy in 24 inch dimensions, and cut to size.. and save big.

by **Aidyn2332** » 2 Jul 2004 14:12

wow....pyro your craftmanship is amazing...how many picks have you made?

by **Aidyn2332** » 2 Jul 2004 14:14

Romstar Im lovin the x-mas ruler :wink:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/romstar_orion/detail?.dir=/1583&.dnm=40b7.jpg&.src=ph

by **PYRO1234321** » 2 Jul 2004 14:33

Thanks Aidyn2332, but there are many other people here that make far better picks. My philosopy is "function over fashion".

As a side note; experimenting with this design has lead to a realy fast method of producing them. I simply grind 1/2 to 2/3 of the width of a wiper blade insert away to leave a 1-2 inch long thin straight shaft. Then use needle nose pliers to bend the shaft tip to the pick design. be sure to sand the thin shaft first (easier than when bent). Any small kinks in the metal (from bending) can be pressed out in a vice or tapped away with a hammer. This method allows for really good control in the pick design and allows for a wider profile than if you were just removing material to make the head.

It resembles a wire pick, but much stronger. I now keep a few pre-ground shafts around ('quick rake blanks') so i can make different rake profiles as needed with only pliers. No heat is needed or recommended.

Cheers

by **kuefler** » 2 Jul 2004 16:10

so at any time will there be some templates posted? i really wanna make a king and a queen pick, as they do look like they'd be fairly effective.

However, i do believe i suck at proportions done by just eyeing something, so going by those pictures, i think i'm gonna screw it up.

by **Romstar** » 3 Jul 2004 6:15

kuefler wrote:so at any time will there be some templates posted? i really wanna make a king and a queen pick, as they do look like they'd be fairly effective.

However, i do believe i suck at proportions done by just eyeing something, so going by those pictures, i think i'm gonna screw it up.

I quoted one person, but I will use this message as a catch all to answer some questions.

1. Yes, there are going to be some 1:1 templates posted.
2. Templates will be available for the king and queen, as well as normal picks.
3. Metal stock. I really do recomend that you keep looking for a plumbing snake. I have found several recently at the local discount store. They are getting harder and harder to find at the hardware. sooner or later you will trip over one of these things.
4. Failing this, plain old carbon steel hacksaw blades. Also, cheap stainless steak knives. For spring steel, go to www.smallparts.com They sell strips in 1/4 and 1/2 width, .025 thick in 6, 12 aznd 24 inch lengths.

Oh, and to the person getting a giggle out of the christmas ruler. I agree, I used it because it was funny.

Romstar

by **macaba** » 3 Jul 2004 9:02

I scaled the picture ages ago, here you are:

When printed on my Epson Stylus C44UX, it does indeed come out in perfect scale, NOTE: The top bigger ones are 5:1 scale, and the smaller ones under are 1:1.

by **Romstar** » 3 Jul 2004 16:51

At least someone has been paying attention.

That's quite similar to the type of template I was going to provide.

Good work Macaba.

Romstar

by **Mad Mick** » 3 Jul 2004 17:13

Hey Mac, I printed out the image on my HP Deskjet 840C and held up a key against the 1:1 image. I'm assuming that the cuts should line up with the numbers and if this is the case, my printout is to the wrong scale.

Can you please post pin spacing dimensions for those of us who are unsure?

FYI, my printout comes up with a spacing of 3mm. Having looked at http://www.dlaco.com/spacing/tips.htm for general pin spacing, it appears that my 3mm (0.118") is a little too close compared to the average 4mm (0.156). I could rescale it to a 4mm spacing, but is this correct?

Thanks,
Mick.

by **Romstar** » 3 Jul 2004 22:15

If you are looking to be that precise, I would recomend making four picks. Double end them if you like.

Two 3mm and two 4mm picks. My recomended spacing is actually .155 center to center. Now, this fits some locks perfectly, but it is not the Yale spacing. Yale is .165 center to center.

However, that would create a situation where you have an overly large pick for many locks.

The concept here is to aproximate the biting of a key as you lift the pick against the pins. Some motion is required of course, and I recomend moving the pick in a figure eight motion as you use it. This allows you to maximise the amount of use you get from the pick with the center to center measurements aren't quite right.

The picks are sloped the way they are for a reason. This is to allow the pins to ride the slopes back and forth, and as a consequence up and down in the plug. With the proper technique, these things work surprisingly well.

Romstar

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