Best material for picks ?

[Joshua904]

Even if it's unreachable for most people (but not as unreachable as "exotic alloys for space programs" ), I want to drop in AHSS.
These are advanced high-strength steels (or ultra high-strength steels) which are used in automotive productions lately.
Let's see if someone comes up with AHSS picks some day.

With tungsten carbide tips!

[kwoswalt99-]

So... what was the point of hardening it?

The pick design could not all be ground out with my main grinder, had to use a rotary tool for part of it. Harder steel makes for slower grinding, so the steel was annesled to allow the grinding to go much faster. But from an annealed state it needed to be hardened again before use. It was mentioned to give an example of high carbon steel heat treating.

Yes, but then you (for all intents and purposes) fully annealed it again after hardening.

Even if it's unreachable for most people (but not as unreachable as "exotic alloys for space programs" ), I want to drop in AHSS.
These are advanced high-strength steels (or ultra high-strength steels) which are used in automotive productions lately.
Let's see if someone comes up with AHSS picks some day.

With tungsten carbide tips!

And unobtanium handles!!!

[inJapan]

So... what was the point of hardening it?

The pick design could not all be ground out with my main grinder, had to use a rotary tool for part of it. Harder steel makes for slower grinding, so the steel was annesled to allow the grinding to go much faster. But from an annealed state it needed to be hardened again before use. It was mentioned to give an example of high carbon steel heat treating.

Yes, but then you (for all intents and purposes) fully annealed it again after hardening.

Even if it's unreachable for most people (but not as unreachable as "exotic alloys for space programs" ), I want to drop in AHSS.
These are advanced high-strength steels (or ultra high-strength steels) which are used in automotive productions lately.
Let's see if someone comes up with AHSS picks some day.

With tungsten carbide tips!

And unobtanium handles!!!

I dont know what exactly im missing here.
What would be the reason of having super hard picks?
Maybe if someone could explain to me the pros and cons.
Personally I dont see the benefits of going through all the trouble.
Unless youre picking super old rusted locks.

[Jacob Morgan]

So... what was the point of hardening it?

The pick design could not all be ground out with my main grinder, had to use a rotary tool for part of it. Harder steel makes for slower grinding, so the steel was annesled to allow the grinding to go much faster. But from an annealed state it needed to be hardened again before use. It was mentioned to give an example of high carbon steel heat treating.

Yes, but then you (for all intents and purposes) fully annealed it again after hardening.

It was not fully annealed when it was tempered. Full anneal, for high carbon steel, is to take it to a red heat (1000F+) and then let it cool slowly. To harden high carbon steel one can not, in a home shop, easily hit the desired hardness in one step. It is a two-step process. The first step is to make it fully hard, that is fairly easy to do, but it makes it too hard. Snap it on the first use kind of hard. So one then partly anneals the full-hard metal by taking it up to more or less between 450 and 600F and then letting it cool slowly. When steel hits around 450F it starts to change color. One stops at the color they want, and that corresponds to how hard it will be. That backs of the hardness to what is useful, good rigidity without the brittleness. There are tables that give suggestions of colors/temperatures for different applications.

This sort of heart treatment is metal working 101. Blacksmiths, gunsmiths, bladesmiths, machinists, et al, have been doing it this way since at least the 1800's. A list of books and articles can be provided that explain how to do it if anyone is interested, or better yet, try it yourself and see. Take a file. Drop it on the floor and it may shatter (brittle), yet it is hard enough to cut steel. Fully anneal it and it won't shatter, but can then be easily filed itself. Heat it red hot and quench it, now it is back to being a hard and brittle file. But then slowly heat it to a brownish blue heat and it loses some hardness but it is still hard and more importantly the brittleness is gone. So why anneal in the first place? Maybe someone wants to make something out of the file, like a Bowie knife. Does it sound like fun to grind a hardened file into a knife blade? It is annealed, shaped, then hardened and then tempered.

Most picks I make I keep the factory temper (using pre-hardened spring stock), but if the shape I'm aiming for means a lot of time at the grinder I will anneal it first to save time. If people think that is too complicated, or they don't like the idea of using a torch, that is fine, it means stick to pre-hardened steel.

[bembel]

And unobtanium handles!!!

Ultra high-strength steels aren't as unobtainable as you may think. Just buy a new Mercedes and cut a piece out of it.
Or visit a local junkyard, lots of newer cars have AHSS parts.

[nine4t4]

Just because AHSS is good for making car bodies doesn't mean it's good for making everything. Steel recipes are so numerous because there are so many applications. Tool Steel like D2 is fine for a knife but for an axe it would be too brittle.

The other issue is that even with a specific formula you can also steer the properties with heat treating and tempering. Not so much with 300 series but with carbon steel it's easy to change the properties.

Best material for pick that I've found is whatever is cheap, easy to work, doesn't bend too much and doesn't snap. I've used stainless sheets, but if you REALLY want to micromanage the properties 1095 is hard to beat

[Slayer85]

Would anybody consider making a pick from 5160 steel?
Is it an overkill, or would it have it's benefits over 1095?
I am just wondering would it last longer, and would it worth the extra cost?

[nine4t4]

Some people care about bling, and make it more about the tool than the skill. Even if 1095 or 301 literally talked to you and told you what to do ("..touch stack 3 the pool is almost set"), there'd still be guys wanting to use "sexier" steels or other metals. I own some Serepick Titanium, but other than magnetism I don't see any advantage.

I think the question should be MOST IDEAL MATERIAL....

There are so many factors. The feel, transmission, resiliency,are stiffness are a few and they change if you change thickness. I own Gov't Steel picks and I find I get a better feel from Sparrows. BUT, the sparrows deform fairly quickly. Some guys go straight for the .018 Peterson's, but I prefer the feel of .025. So the user is also a variable.

That's the nice thing about homebrew. you get to experiment. I never found any street cleaner bristles but I have worked with

wiper inserts
Stainless steel (from dollar store kitchen spatulas)
brick strapping
drain snake
spring steel (repurposed from drywall tools)

They all have pros and cons. But generally, if metal and around .020" thick I'll play with it.

[Slayer85]

I see your point. Thanks

[SalemDon]

Score! I have never found sweeper bristles before. But apparently the last time thru Keizer the sweeper must have hit something hard. So far I have found almost two dozen as I walk or run around town. I have about a week left to find more before the next pass by the street sweeper picks up its mess. In addition to finding wrench material, I am doing a public service of protecting tires from punctures! So far I have made a couple of wrenches with different bends to see how that affects the feel. I like having a handle that is longer than the wrench in my little cheap fits-in-a-credit-card-slot set. But I haven't tried it enough to be positive that it improves my picking. Any thoughts not just on material, but parts of the hand and how much of the hand to get the best feel? Thanks. Don

[gademsky]

Not much talk here about street sweeper bristles. Is it because they are harder to obtain or because they do not make good picks. My guess is those found in the street that have broken off sweeper heads have had a lifetime worth of picking type stress put on them already.

Just think about how many times the blades circle around in a day and how much the metal is stressed before it breaks off. I bet new bristles would hold up a lot longer.

I know as a new picker, my technique is poor, my patience is sometimes thin and I force the issue when I should finesse it....so I break a few picks, and twist a few up after a while.

[Jacob Morgan]

Not much talk here about street sweeper bristles. Is it because they are harder to obtain or because they do not make good picks. My guess is those found in the street that have broken off sweeper heads have had a lifetime worth of picking type stress put on them already

Good metal for picks is whatever can be thin enough to work with the locks one picks while not flexing (up and down) any noticeable amount, at least for SPP tools. The desire for hard steel is that usually harder means less flex. Street sweeper bristles fit the bill, but not always that easy to find. The original post was, I think, from someone trying to find a commercial source for steel.

If the bristles are made of good spring steel to begin with I do not think that brushing streets will do anything bad to them. They are not being permanently bent, they are under no tensile or compressive stress, they do not have built in stress risers, and they are not heated up to anything meaningful. They have an easy life compared to other flat springs. If you can find some bristles I'd suggest using them without worrying about them breaking due to their history.

[Squelchtone]

gademsky: Raimundo's original Bogotas were made from street sweeper bristles he would find in the gutter. There may be a section of a bristle that got wet and pitted and had some surface wear that needed to get sanded down, and I know from working with found bristles myself, sometimes a section of a few inches would be sacrificed and cut off because it was too pitted and even after sanding and polishing it still didn't have a good enough surface to be used as a good looking pick.

Squelchtone