crazy concept

[raimundo]

there have been some crazy concepts about picking by air bumping the pins with compressed air and other ideas of how to put things into a lock and get a similiar effect. Apparently the treatment that is said to lube locks against bumping is some sort of viscous material that slows the pins down.
Well imagene a semi liquid that is very viscous, that cannot get above the pins like water or air, and therefore when forced into the keyway, raises the pins, likely it would also be forced out of the back of the cylinder, but this would still have enough friction to back up the flow enough to raise pins, perhaps while an electric type of power tool does a bit of intermittent tapping on the tensor blade that must be used. this is just an idea based on other ideas that were previouly discussed, I have no idea what substance would have the right friction and viscosity, nor any idea about the clean up that would have to follow putting a substance like this into a lock. It would have more viscosity than toothpase, or perhaps it could create friction and upward pressure by being injected rapidly like from the barrel of an airgun.
Not asking anyone to agree with this, its a piece for thinking about, perhaps it will suggest something altogether new for someone else.

[raimundo]

after posting the above, i figured the substance perhaps should be a bit like stickless bubble gum so that you could remove it by just pulling it and it would hav such long chain molecules that every bit of it comes out as a single piece, and dirt brushes off it. This is imagination folks, but thats how ideas start.
then reading back numbers of barrys blackbag blog, I came upon the pickbusters stuff that is supposed to make bumping difficult, and it occured to me that barry promises a review of the stuff and hasn't posted it yet. My thought is that with the right pickig technique, this could actually be an aid to picking, if it is viscous and slows things down as I seem to understand from discussions I have seen on 101. It could make it more likely that bound pins would slip slowly to shear rather than just snap down under spring pressure. Until barry does his review, I just dont know,it could be a lube that makes pins jump faster too. but it it slows them down, this is not anti picking at all if the technique is correct.

[dougfarre]

I dont understand the part about " perhaps while an electric type of power tool does a bit of intermittent tapping on the tensor blade that must be used"
-raimundo

So you put the high viscosity material into the lock, and then use a electric tool to tap the pins? And the viscosity material kind of holds the pins in place? Are you saying we are making like a temporary mold of the key inside the lock in a way? Could you elaborate a bit?

[globallockytoo]

sounds like destructive entry to me

[dougfarre]

Perhaps, yet i can imagine materials that would possibly work. Like "Big Chew" bubble gum that has been chewed for approximately 6mins. No more, no less. And it has to be Big Chew.

[Minion]

Silly putty?

[dougfarre]

No way, way to viscous.

[criminalhate]

Thinking along these lines fiberglass minus the hardening agent might work but cleaning would be a bear. This is more towards he picking idea of slowing down the pins not to replace the pick.

[elbarto]

What about some polymer material that would behave completely elastically such as a similar substance to that which they make 'sticky' hands and all over those soft jelly like toys. If you could find a way to fill the keyway with this material and use some means of repeated loading (small plunger/compressed air system maybe?) the key pins would be manipulated by the deforming material. Just a thought.

[raimundo]

Dougfarre.... I was thinking about something that would just put hydrolic pressure on the pins, enough to raise them to the shear and then have them hang up on that shear. If the material can get around the pins and above them, it won't work so thats why I thought a viscous material.

I don't have all the answers, but its about tossing out ideas and seeing if it gives anyone else a good take on it, something might come of it.

[mercurial]

Given this is just bouncing ideas around, still in the very hypothetical brainstoming stage, here are a few thoughts -

With respect to preventing the material getting around and above the pins - maybe it would be possible to use a barrier, made of very thin elastic material, something like a tiny tiny balloon, inserted in the keyway first. The viscous substance would be pushed inside the sheath, and is sealed inside it.

Making the very end of the sheath, which is at the back of the keyway, behind the last pin much tougher than the rest of the sheath should help prevent force being wasted pushing the substance out the back of the keyway.

Removal of the material would be easy IF the sheath could be pulled back out still intact. The viscous substance used could be a two-part mixture, mixed on site, which is initially very viscous, but breaks down and liquifies after a few minutes, letting the pins come back down, aiding removal. Maybe such a mixture could also be used to overlift all the pins, and then tensioning the lock as the mixtures liquifies - reverse 'picking'.

...Mark

[mitch.capper]

There are serveral chemicals which upon the addition of another chemical would turn to liquid. One that comes to mind is sodium polyacrylate (i believe is the smae) the chemical is that gag stores sell that you add to water and it turns to a gel substance. Add salt and it becomes liquid again.

Problem is I am not overly sure why slowing the pins down would help a great deal. It would obviously take less to hold the pin at the sheer line, however it would also be a lot easier to overset the pin (and at that point what do you do?).

Also I am not sure if an air gun would work well for bumping. The idea of bumping is to give a quick jolt of force to the bottom pin to cause the top pin to bounce up above the sheer line and the bottom pin to not move. If the force is not applied in a rapid manor then both pins will move together and it will not work. I am thinking trying to use air to bump would be more like a rocket taking off then a quick jolt (which would be no good).

Also air will flow in whatever way it can escape. The top of cylinders are generally covered and would almost definately have virtually no air flow, so that would greatly reduce the air you could force up the pin chambers.

[LeeNo]

What about a self-contained thing like a membrane filled with the viscous liquid?

You would load the device into a open-ended syringe that covers the lock and then squeeze the plunger. That would force the viscous liquid into the lock and the membrane would prevent the liquid from escaping. When finished, you just pull it out and it is ready to use again.

This whole discussion though reminds me of that Jack Black/Ben Stiller movie Envy

The thing I don't get about this is, since all pins are being manipulated at once, how does the liquid "know" how much to lift each pin?\Or would it be a slow and steady squeeze while the tension was being continuously increased?

[TOWCH]

Ultrathin condom FTW.

[Stray]

How about a Non-Newtonian fluid?

Wiki description
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid

And Cant have A vid demo without Brainiac...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygtX2miwU5I


There is a demo of somebody vibrating starch too. So by pouring said liquid into a lock and Vibrating it or putting some sort of other force on it it will act like a solid. Then when you stop it just pours out of the lock. Also easy to clean afterwards.

So maybe that could replace your gel stuff?