Lifter Pick

[YouLuckyFox]

I was making some new purchases today when I saw some Deep Cut Access Picks that were available. I saw something I had not heard of called a "lifter pick." Not wanting to bog the forum every time I had a question, I sent an email to Peterson to find out what the purpose of this pick was, their reply is included. I searched the site and was not able to find anything about "shaking' a spool pin," but I did find a good publication by Matt Blaze that outlined "rocking" a spool or mushroom pin http://crypto.com/papers/notes/picking/. Anyway, has anyone had any luck with this pick or any other with its design?



From Peterson:
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The lifter pick's cup lends it to taking and "shaking" a spool pin.

Think of the possibilities with a Medico Lock. Yes I have seen it done.
>

[MBI]

It's one of my favorite pick designs/modifications.

I came up with the same idea a while back. Spent hours trying to see if any pick companies or anyone on the forum had come up with it previously. It really helped my feedback and I couldn't imagine that someone else hadn't already thought of it, but since I couldn't find any pictures or descriptions of that design I posted it on the forum. From the responses, I quickly found out that others had in fact already been doing that modification, as I suspected, and someone pointed out the Peterson lifter pick to me also.

Well, even though I hadn't come up with anything new, I still like the concept. Definitely give it a try on Medecos. At first I used it on Medecos too as it can help manipulate the pin rotation. Over time though, I found I could usually turn pins just as well by tipping a regular hook to the right or left in those extra wide Medeco keyways. Then wedging it against one of the chisel surfaces of the pin tips and pushing or pulling (depending on whether I was using the front or back face of the pin) as I lifted the pin.

Sometimes I used to modify the "useless" picks in my picksets into one of these. Filing away the unneeded parts of a ball pick or a rake to reshape it into something like a hook or a half diamond, and then making a small groove in the tip of the tool.

The pick in the image in my signature below is a ball pick I modified into one. Since a ball pick doesn't have much "reach" this particular pick isn't very effective at high-low pin combinations, but it is like greased lightning at picking the relatively flat bittings that are so commonly found in factory pinned household locks in the US, like Schlage Kwikset and Weiser.

[MrAnybody]

I've got a Peterson Lifter, and I'm happy with it. It's a nice pick to have around even though I don't use it that often. I know others that feel it's a waste of time, but I think you'll get that with any 'specialist' pick. I think it all depends how much you use it, and as a result, how you tune a method that's useful with it.

The thing that's now appealing to me is MBI's suggestion to modify a couple of other picks for the same purpose. Especially ball picks that I personally find no use for whatsoever. The nice thing about that is that the cup on the Lifter is not always right to grasp the pin. So another with a little adjustment would definitely be a bonus to my bag. Very cool, indeed.

And in general, I really enjoy using the Peterson DCAPs. I'd very much recommend them.

[basepi]

The pick in the image in my signature below is a ball pick I modified into one. Since a ball pick doesn't have much "reach" this particular pick isn't very effective at high-low pin combinations, but it is like greased lightning at picking the relatively flat bittings that are so commonly found in factory pinned household locks in the US, like Schlage Kwikset and Weiser.

Why do you like it so much for these basic locks? Just curious, it doesn't seem like it would gain you anything over a small hook, as you don't need to really manipulate those pins much.

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basepi

[YouLuckyFox]

@MBI: Sorry for a repeat post, my biggest fear in this forum is repeating a post that has been done better elsewhere in the forum--I try to utilize the Google search algorithm as it seems to have more precise and accurate results. I wasn't able to find your original post on this pick (searching specifically through your posts,) would you link it to me? Also, thank you for the detailed response, I will have to give a shot on the Medecos, that is what I am hoping to build up to. I have heard that filing a little angle in the plane of a hook pick can also help, I imagine the "Lifter Pick" will be more precise though. I am not sure if I am quite ready for the Medeco line, but will consider posting my progress if I run into any road blocks along the way. I shall have to try this out. From what you say, this pick also works well with non-security flat-bitted pins key pins, looking forward to this! Thanks again for taking time to respond!

@ MrAnybody:
Thanks for the recommendation. I am good enough with standard security locks that I seem to be able to either bypass or pick anything I run into. I am thinking I am ready to slowly work more on the higher security stuff (Medeco being the eventual goal <Fingers crossed> .) Also, thank you for the DCAPS recommendation, as I decided (before reading this post) against the DCAPs yesterday out of worry of bending the tools so I will have to give them a try next time around !

[MBI]

Why do you like it so much for these basic locks? Just curious, it doesn't seem like it would gain you anything over a small hook, as you don't need to really manipulate those pins much.
basepi

Just a personal preference I developed after practicing with it for a while. The pick tip almost seemed to find it's way on to the next pin as if by remote control, with the way the groove would slide onto the next pin tip and grab it.

Sometimes I'd run across basic house locks that I could SPP nearly as fast as using a key. But even on more difficult locks, once I was used to the pick, as I probed around in the keyway it just seemed I could feel the inside of the lock more vividly. It helped me form a mental picture of what was going on in there. A lot of the time I'd pick with my eyes closed and just visualize in my head what was taking place in the lock based on what I could feel with the pick.

One thing I found that helped make it more effective for me is making sure the pick is well polished, but NOT the cupped tip. What I'd do is make the pick, either from scratch or by modifying some other pick. Then I'd polish it very smooth with progressively finer wet/dry sandpaper. After polishing the pick, that's when I'd take a needle file and file the groove in the tip. That way the pick was smooth so it maneuvered well in tight keyways and still gave good feedback, but the cupped surface that makes contact with the tips of the pins had clean, sharp edges. It seemed to help keep the pick tip firmly in place on a pin while manipulating it without sliding off easily.

@MBI: Sorry for a repeat post, my biggest fear in this forum is repeating a post that has been done better elsewhere in the forum--I try to utilize the Google search algorithm as it seems to have more precise and accurate results. I wasn't able to find your original post on this pick (searching specifically through your posts,) would you link it to me?

I can't seem to find it either. Might have been on a different forum. I thought it was here but it was a long time ago so I'm not sure now.

[ARF-GEF]

I think it's useful, but it's too thick for European keyways.
At least I plan on sanding it down to get it thinner.

[basepi]

Thanks, @MBI! It's cool that you found a tool you love so much -- I may have to modify one of my ball picks like that, see how it feels. =)

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basepi

[YouLuckyFox]

I think it's useful, but it's too thick for European keyways.
At least I plan on sanding it down to get it thinner.

I have noticed that Euro locks have thinner keyways, I miss some of the unique lock mechanisms I observed while living in Europe. Though I was not interested in locksmithing at the time, I remember my front door lock required the key to be inserted and turned to the left first followed by turning it to the right. It was hard to get the hang of at first, but now that I look back on it, this would be very good against lock picking (were it not for a plug spinner .)

[ARF-GEF]

required the key to be inserted and turned to the left first followed by turning it to the right.

That sounds intereting. I have no idea what that could have been. Even Abloy lock only require ahalf turn backwards at the end of everything.

[YouLuckyFox]

That sounds intereting. I have no idea what that could have been. Even Abloy lock only require ahalf turn backwards at the end of everything.

Wish I had more information on the lock, this was years ago so I remember little of it (unfortunate at that time I had little interest in the workings of all things mechanical!) I can say this, however: I think that it had more to do with the other locking hardware than the lock itself (correct term?) As in, the door was a large metal door with securely set tempered glass windows in the fashion that is seen with french doors. The "doorknob" was not round like most American knob sets have, it had no tapering edges (such that it looked like a skinny cylinder and a fat cylinder stacked flush on the outside surface of the door.) The knob actually didn't turn, it was fixed to the door. You would turn the key one direction (I admit I probably do not remember which direction anymore) and then turn it the other and then pull the knob out to open the door. If you didn't turn both directions, the door would not open. Wish I had more details on this, but I fear I may never be acquainted with such an interesting door again. Anyone who has some insight on this, please chime in!

[ARF-GEF]

Interesting stuff. I don't think I ever met one like that.
Can you tell us where you met this locks? I mean in which country?
Thanks for sharing

[YouLuckyFox]

You bet, AG. I was living in the Czech Republic at the time. The house was newly built in 1998, I believe. It had a lot of unique features that I haven't seen too many places. I have seen the door I'm describing in other places in Europe, just not with a french window configuration. It bugs me a little that I can't find a picture of what I'm describing, but oh well. It was a well built house, it these blinds that were very unique, the closest thing I could find to them is this (except they were made of hard plastic that matched the house and the carriage on the top--that holds the rolling blinds--was inside the wall):


Sorry I can't find any solid information on what I'm describing, hope it doesn't sound like I'm making it up!

[YouLuckyFox]

I have seen the door I'm describing in other places in Europe, just not with a french window configuration.

Forgive me, I meant to say "single french door."

[ARF-GEF]

Those stuff you mentioned are pretty common here in Eastern Europe:)
And the Czech do have some serious lock-making past