A forensics idea

[cuttinedge1]

I was reading an article about lock picking forensics and had an idea. If a pick is made of steel and comes in contact with brass pins then it leaves a scratch because it is harder if a plastic or polymer pick comes in contact the plastic rubs on to the pins. Both of these can be seen with a magnifying lens. I understand that brass is not a suitable pick material but what if there was brass foil or brass leaf or even possibly just rubbing the tip of your pick on a piece of brass. Any ideas are welcome.

[YouLuckyFox]

Here are some interesting articles referring to brass:

http://lockpickingforensics.com/anti_forensics.php

http://lockpickingforensics.com/articles/keystothefarm.pdf

[Paleo123]

I emailed datagram about the anti-forensics techniques listed on his site but I only inquired about the teflon ones the idea I eventually want to try is use this coating http://www.protechpowder.com/EN/velvacoat.html Vevlvacoat,.. I am already in the middle of building an epg and now plan to build another epg to emulate the multipick control so I have a few things going on ahead of this project now but I have a sneaking suspicion that trying to fool datagram is going to be quite difficult no matter what you try to coat picks with because one wrong move and you would be leaving pick indicators on the walls of the pin chambers and pins.

[Paleo123]

Can't edit so I'll re-post I meant to write in there that I'm sure if you email datagram he could/would answer any questions you might have as well, he seemed like a nice guy.

[critmass235]

wouldn't brass electroplating work? i think there might be even chemical only one, but i cant remember where i saw it

[Achyfellow]

Had the same idea and asked Schuyler some weeks ago. He linked me to the links Fox posted and the answer was (After reading those) obvious... Anything that is not a key will leave marks. More or less obvious, but marks nonetheless. Any material strong enough to push the pins up or down will leave traces.

[GWiens2001]

Even keys will leave marks. The skill of the person doing the forensics will determine which marks are from a key, and which are not. A background in Voodoo magic helps them, as does a 'Lock Forensics 8-Ball'.

Gordon

[cuttinedge1]

One more idea is taking a hook pick and pulling the tip out of a ball point pen and washing it out. Then crimping it on to the point of the pick and squirting it with wd 40 so it rolls better. Then I guess filing it as necessary so it fits in the lock. This would possibly mean that the pick would roll on the pins rather than scratch them.

[GWiens2001]

Though the WD-40 would still be in the lock.

Gordon

[cuttinedge1]

True so no wd 40 and just wash the ball point with water. Although I dont know how suspicious wd 40 would be.

[C locked]

i'd say that it'd only be a problem if the other locks on site had not been "lubricated" by the WD40.
so if access if available a quick spray on the other locks onsite, problem solved. as long as their is no other proof of your tampering with them. ie cameras

[critmass235]

what about a coating thats softer than the plug and pens and it sublimes at normal pressure and temperature. after a few days no resides

[cuttinedge1]

That could work but it would probably rub off the picks before you got to the lock. Also temperature could affect how quickly it goes away ie on a very cold month it could stay there for a long time. Thats very could idea if whatever coating is not affected by these problems.

[critmass235]

apply quickly before use. and store at a different pressure. i dont know of any coatings that would work right now ( ask a chemist) or a 2 chemical system where the second reacts with the coating only and if the coatings , reactants, and 2nd chem are all inert to the lock metal and the 2nd + reactants both evaporate

[cuttinedge1]

Good idea. I wonder if the guys in the watergate scandal though about this kind of thing