Peterson manufacturing defects...and their response

[Squelchtone]

Looks like more than a few Peterson Government Steel picks were hit with a manufacturing defect, causing a weak spot right above the handle. As seen here:

https://i.imgur.com/UvTl47p.jpg


In another picture, you can better see the extent of the damage:

https://i.imgur.com/vZZT0Kb.jpg



These pictures were posted to reddit's lockpicking subreddit by /u/Nemo_Griff. Not long after, a new user with the handle /u/Petersonmfg appeared in the thread to try and explain the situation. Many of these comments are little more than "Problem has been fixed". Others repeat that there is a "50% warranty", meaning that you mail the broken picks back to Peterson, and they give you a 50% discount on the replacement.

I think this thread could use more visibility, and I know a lot of us hang out both on reddit and here.

[Squelchtone]

Thank you for spreading the word, but from reading the thread, it seems the new generation of pickers at /r/lockpicking don't have the same love or reverence or experience with Peterson picks that a lot of us here do.

I'm no fan boy, but my primary set happens to be a Peterson with plastic and rubber handles, as well as the Just Picks dipped handles, with some HPC picks added to it, and some hand made Raimundo Bogotas. I've had 1 Peterson plastic handled pick break for me once which was because I was doing something dumb I shouldn't have, but I have heard on the forums that their last few years of quality has been declining per the opinion of those who have used their tools for a long time and have owned older production runs and newer production runs.

If that is Ken or one of his people replying to the thread on /r/lockpicking then I absolutely dont blame him for stopping by to defend himself against someone who starts a thread off by saying screw you peterson. That's juvenile and unprofessional of that OP. If someone discovered a flaw, they should contact Peterson, and not even leave an angry email, as was written on Reddit, but a normal email or phone call saying, hey I think there is a big manufacturing defect that I just found, and it's been less then 30 or less than 90 days since I bought from you, please replace my broken picks free of charge.

I don't agree on the replace your broken picks for 50% of buying it new rule, but Peterson doesn't know what people are doing with picks or if they're n00bs or being heavy handed, so handing out free picks to everyone who breaks one wouldn't be a good idea either, but for this situation, the replacements should be 100% free.

I also don't like the gang up on a manufacturer mentality, especially a small specialty shop. It's not like yelling or complaining at a large corporation on Twitter as seems to be the popular hobby for many lately, Peterson isn't Sears or United airlines, they're a small shop where actual human beings work, and if someone has a problem and contacts them and treats them like people and not like some faceless evil corporation, you might get a favorable reply. We all know that when someone is unhappy they'll tell 10 people loudly, but if someone is happy with a product they'll tell a friend or two and not make a loud stink about it. I can see that whole thread turning into a lynch mob out for blood, which is not the way to fix this situation.

In my opinion, the stamping or etching of numbers/letters on the picks is useless to begin with, None of my old ones have nay stamping or etching on them to indicate which pick they are, I can see the tip of the pick for myself, I don't need a number on the shaft. If anything, like someone suggested on /r/lockpicking, melt the number into the handle where there's plenty of room to do so.

I think Peterson should for these few cases send out new picks for free and call it a day. It's not gonna cost them more than a hundred bucks out of pocket to make a bunch of pickers happy again, but the OP on reddit needs to learn some manners as well and not lash out at a company and then expect the company to kiss his butt and roll out the red carpet for him.

Squelchtone

[nite0wl]

A friend pointed that thread out to me yesterday. My response ultimately is the same as Squelchtone's (although he managed to write it up more eloquently that I did).

[tpark]

I’ve purchased and used many different kinds of picks from Peterson, and here’s my take on this. If the pick has a defect, but is traceable to a recent purchase from either Peterson or one of their wholesalers, they will send out new picks without any problems. The question of warranty comes into play when a pick breaks after some use – how should this be handled? Locksmiths have limited time to try and open a lock, so they won’t spend a lot of time trying to pick a lock before destructive methods come into play. Locksport people spend a lot more time on individual locks, so the picks get much more use than a smith would ever give them. I think hobbyists are much more likely to break picks than locksmiths.

I think the Peterson picks are made of much stiffer material than other picks. They’re much more likely to snap off rather than bend because of this, but feedback is better, and I think that oversets because of the pick springing the pin too high after the spool sets are less frequent. Some challenge locks have things in there that might need more force with the pick than most standard commercial locks, so some picks may be broken that way. There’s a tradeoff between the pick having a tendency to bend versus a tendency to break off.

Offering full warranty on new picks, but offering the 50% replacement on government steel picks is a workable strategy. If they’ve fixed their process, very few picks will break in the future, and making people who have a broken pick send the old one in will prevent abuse of the system. Getting rid of the engraving would be a good step. Starrett has labeling on their stock which doesn’t seem to come off, so printing exists that lasts, but doesn’t cut into the stock – perhaps they could use that, or stamp the pick type into the handle.

I agree with Squelchtone on the handling of the picks with manufacturing defects though- if the pick broke off at the base, the vendor should replace the pick free of charge.


There was a period of time where I got some picks that were defective from Peterson, but both earlier and later picks were OK. It does look like the shape of newer 15 thou Gem picks is a bit different – the end is a bit longer and thinner, so the shape isn’t exactly like the “classic Gem” . I suspect this is a design change to allow the pick to set pins when the bitting is difficult.

[Silverado]

I saw the thread on Reddit as well.

I'm looking at both sides of the entire situation here and I've come up with:

I feel OP should have tried to work with the manufacturer before they went on to attempt to publicly humiliate them and potentially turn new pickers away from a great manufacturer.

If it is indeed a defect, it's stated that Peterson is saying they fixed (or will fix) it.

It could be OP being way too hard on the picks and that's what happens when you abuse your tools. Lockpicks aren't made to pry locks open. Observation of the picture shows that the shafts are already bent, indicating too much mustard.

A public bashing like "SCREW YOU PETERSON" was definitely tactless and rude.

I have Peterson picks with the same stamping in them, and have had them for months. I also tend to be what I believe is a little heavy handed with my picks and this hasn't happened to me. All I can think is that the picks in the picture were heavily abused and the way OP handled it makes them seem like a petulant brat.

[Squelchtone]

I saw the thread on Reddit as well.

I'm looking at both sides of the entire situation here and I've come up with:

I feel OP should have tried to work with the manufacturer before they went on to attempt to publicly humiliate them and potentially turn new pickers away from a great manufacturer.

If it is indeed a defect, it's stated that Peterson is saying they fixed (or will fix) it.

It could be OP being way too hard on the picks and that's what happens when you abuse your tools. Lockpicks aren't made to pry locks open. Observation of the picture shows that the shafts are already bent, indicating too much mustard.

A public bashing like "SCREW YOU PETERSON" was definitely tactless and rude.

I have Peterson picks with the same stamping in them, and have had them for months. I also tend to be what I believe is a little heavy handed with my picks and this hasn't happened to me. All I can think is that the picks in the picture were heavily abused and the way OP handled it makes them seem like a petulant brat.

Well said Silverado.

When I was reading the entire reddit thread something stuck out to me that the reddit OP wrote as as reply to another person there. He mentioned pivoting the picks as he picks, and trying to use the pivoting method to pop up a very stuck spool pin. I could see someone pressing too hard up on a stuck spool pin and a pick deforming or snapping, perhaps snapping even easier if half the pick is missing due to chemical etching of those letters and numbers... (are these picking methods and names for them coming from Bosnian Bill videos by the way? I'm not sure it's a method we expressly discuss "pivoting" here when teaching new pickers) I have seen animations of it, not sure it's a method I would use to pick a lock, but I could see the attraction to it.

Squelchtone

[drumnut01]

I've always liked Peterson tools. Most of my picks and tension wrenches are Peterson and I have one of the bifold leather cases that I love. I recently ordered a leather trifold case and when I got it I immediately noticed a decrease in quality. The leather is not nearly as heavy of soft and the Velcro started showing significant signs of wear after only a couple days. I emailed Peterson and didn't even get a response. I don't think I'll be buying anything else from them in the future.

[AngryHatter]

I know this is a late response but I just ordered a Government set.
Will update if anything untoward happens.

My usage is kind of light. I tend to have to manually open 4 or 5 locks a day. I do not abuse my tools. I have a Southord set that I've had for over two years with no issues other than scuffing.

[gumptrick]

I own many Peterson picks (among other brands). In fact, I ordered more earlier this week to fill out my 18 thou set. I have not had any problems with any of the Peterson picks I own, and zero hassles with ordering either. Every one of my orders was shipped promptly and there were no mistakes with the contents.

As far as customer service goes, I have never tried to contact them by Email, but I did call them once to see if they could add an item to an order which I had previously placed online. They were very friendly over the phone and had no problem adding to my order so I didn't have to place a separate one and pay for shipping twice.

I can't comment on how their quality may have changed as all of my Petersons were purchased within the last two years so I don't have any experience with their older picks. However I haven't encountered any defects or had any of the picks fail.

[jimu57]

The only problem I have seen is breaking of Bogie rakes. But the temp outside where I was using it was about 20 deg F. Possibly I was being a little rough on the picks in trying to hurry.

[AngryHatter]

Ordered yesterday and today I got shipping information.
A good start.

[Ralph_Goodman]

The only problem I have seen is breaking of Bogie rakes. But the temp outside where I was using it was about 20 deg F. Possibly I was being a little rough on the picks in trying to hurry.

From everything I have read, it seems that you are right. The context of how the picks are being used has a lot to do with them failing in this specific way.

Seems like the company is taking responsibility and solving an issue that, although not all that alarming, was a weakness that could be improved upon.

[jeffmoss26]

I have been a faithful customer of Peterson for years. Never had an issue. When I break a pick, and trust me, it happens a lot to me - I buy a new one. Ken has always been very helpful and supportive in the community.

[AngryHatter]

The set arrived today.

The picks are thinner than my "go-to" Southord set. The flip side of that is they are more "articulate." I can't think of the right word, but I can feel the pins easier and the angle of the pick with these.
I keep a cheap schlage on my desk to play with. Trying out the new set, I opened it quickly.

I find I like thicker handles. Stamped picks feel as though they are cutting my hand. My favorites of the Southord picks I own have been sandwiched between two flat pieces shaped as the handle, "riveted" and then polished smooth. They are the most comfortable all metal picks I have used.

These handles are nicer. They allow for a nice grip with no cutting. Add to that the transmitting of information to my hands and I may have found a new favorite set.
My only concern would be the thickness of the blades and their durability.
(As this thread alludes)

[AngryHatter]

Correction.

Both sets are the same thickness - 22 mils/55 mm