Gimmee your opinion

[vector40]

General opinion poll, guys.

Ponder on this. The basic theory of ordinary lock picking is really pretty straightforward, isn't it? I mean, you could describe the method in one sentence, if the listener already knew the workings of a pin tumbler. Apply some torque, find the binding pin, lift to shearline, repeat.

Easy.

Yet we often spend many minutes working on a lock and sometimes don't get it at all; spend hours practicing to improve at this "easy" skill; in short, treat it like a really complex and difficult art and science (and it is).

So where's the discrepancy? What exactly is it that makes the theory so much more difficult than it sounds? SPECIFICALLY what is so challenging?

All opinions welcome.

[digital_blue]

Picking is possible as a result of tolerances in a lock mechanism. There are factors that make it easier and factors that make it harder.

Some factors making picking easier:
- Low tolerances in pin chambers
- Improperly aligned pin chambers
- Small variation in pin depths (eg. 55656)

Some factors making picking difficult:
- High tolerances in pin chambers
- Security pins
- Secondary locking mechanisms such as sidebars
- Dirt in lock
- Damage or excessive wear to springs or pins

Often times a lock is difficult because of the accumulative effects of a number of factors. There are a million things that sound easy in principle but involve a great deal of time and effort to accomplish. When you pick a lock you must discover which factors are at play and what you will need to do to combat it. You have a host of tools and a multitude of techniques available to you. It is miraculous that we can get as consistant as we can. When I am faced with a typical deadbolt with no special features these days I can be pretty confident that I will pick it in reasonably short order *most* of the time. Certainly not all of the time. Sometimes even an apparently simple lock can have a set of characteristics that combine to make for a very difficult pick. More often than not, this is not the case. It is, however, what keeps this hobby interesting.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for asking the question.

db

[Kaellman]

A very good and simple question.

Like db, I believe that lockpicking is one of those things you can only master by practicing. However, i do also believe that different persons learn in different ways. Some might learn through picking alot, while others can learn lockpicking by simply reading the theory behind it. I combine the two and that suits me just fine

[brarko]

I think the discreprency is a reflection of our stae of mind at the time of picking. We know the theory, we know the technique, in fact we are pretty good pickers - most of the time. Yet, how many times have you picked up a lock to pick, or for that matter a fitted lock, and within seconds it pops open. Then, thinking you are very skilled and clever, within a few miniutes you try again only to be foiled for a frustrating period of time. The lock hasn't changed in such a short space of time so it must be the picker, given that the tiny anount of wear just inflicted upon the lock is irrelevent (or is it).

Some minute change has occurred whithin ourself, maybe a tiny bit too heavy handed the second time due to a bit of smugness and carelessness creeping in.

Strange, but it's happened to me many times - now I simply refuse to declare a lock easy or difficult. Locks can humble thee.

brarko

[Exodus5000]

Even if one knew exactly how a pin tumbler lock works and knew the theory behind lockpicking, it is unlikely they would be a succesful lock-picker the first time they attempt to pick a lock. Muscle memory is built up based on trial and error. You learn that certain feedback is a good feeling, and other feedback is bad. Many people describe the "click" of a pin setting. I bet these people also know the "mush" of an overset pin.

When picking a lock we deal with such small distances that we are moving pins, it is really quite a unique excersize compared to anything else an average person would do on a normal day, especially when very little of lockpicking is based on sight which is humans most prominant sense.

Something interesting to think about is, once you've been trained to recognize the good and bad feedback in a normal pin tumbler, what happens when you throw in a security pin? All of a sudden, all of your knowledge is out the widnow and you start from square one until finaly yuo have an "ah ha!" moment and recongize/understand the anomaly.

[hzatorsk]

SPECIFICALLY what is so challenging?

All opinions welcome.

* Having people looking over your shoulder.
* -5 degree wind chill.
* Tension wrenches biting into finger.
* Needing three hands to hold padlock, pick and wrench.
* Restrictive keyways.

[WhiteHat]

I think it also has to do with the fact that it's part science and part art.

flying a plane:
take off: apply brakes, throttle to full, release breaks, pull up at correct speed.
Fly: rudder controls yaw, stick controls up and down and rolling left and right - when you're turning, apply inside rudder.
land: get down to the acceptable flaps deployment speed, deploy flaps, flare at the correct altitude, land perfectly. there's some other garbage about fuel mix, prop angle (depending on plane), trim etc, but those are the basics.

so what's the problem? go out and fly a plane.

the factors that aren't mentioned are wind velocity and direction - turbulence, weight of aircraft, wether or not you have a hangover, what phase the moon is in and whether there is dust on your dining room table or not.

also, there are unsaid factors that make the most difference - try this:

Fly: rudder controls yaw, stick controls up and down and rolling left and right - when you're turning, apply just the right amount ofinside rudder.
land: get down to the acceptable flaps deployment speed, deploy flaps, flare at just thecorrect altitude and adjust according to wind speed and turbulence, land perfectly.

[DeadlyHunter]

You could also describe tightrope walking, sword swallowing, juggling, landing on the moon, or the theory of relativity in a simple sentence. Just because someone can understand the root of a subject or skill does not mean it is easy by any means.

[digital_blue]

You could also describe tightrope walking, sword swallowing, juggling, landing on the moon, or the theory of relativity in a simple sentence. Just because someone can understand the root of a subject or skill does not mean it is easy by any means.

Well said.

..whether there is dust on your dining room table or not....

So how much dust does it take to make me a good flyer?

db

[vector40]

Basically what I'm trying to do is reconcile causality.

On one hand, you have this very clear and simple theory. In all seriousness, it's NOT like flying a plane or any such thing, because that has hundreds of factors you need to be aware of and understand. The lockpicking textbook could indeed just have a couple of sentences. You do x, then y, and z a few times, and you've picked the lock. It's like starting a fire or baking a cake. Just physics. Logic. If x, then y.

On the other hand, you have reality, where we slave away for ages at the lock, getting it often by chance. We use phrases like "then it opened" and "it popped in five minutes" and "the plug turned." Like it's on the same level as being struck by lightning. We do some stuff, then whoosh, bang, presto! A little luck and a little effort and the lock will open -- passive voice. We're not opening it so much. It is opening.

We say stuff like "For some reason that Kwikset took me forever" and "I just can't seem to get this one today." Huh? If piloting a plane worked like that, we'd all be in burning craters. "Oh, how weird, today pushing the stick left makes the plane roll right." "Gosh! I guess I'll have to try a new way of landing today; the usual stuff isn't working."

According to the theory, there really shouldn't be any reason that causality is muddled when picking a lock. You do x, and y should happen. Just like that. Every time.

But clearly it doesn't. So what's the discrepancy?

I'm not asking you to quantify something like the exact muscular uncertainties or metallic anamolies or astral alignments that make up this stuff; but surely we can at least point at the general beast and say "That's the other factor. When we notice that, take it into account, this all makes sense." But right now it's like saying 1 + 0 = 23,754. There's SOMETHING there; it's NOT zero; we know because of the way the results look.

[raimundo]

State of mind is the most important variable, and then knowlege and experience. frustration, and too much force are the biggest obstacles, then you have to know the difference between the locks, the loose cheap pin tumblers, and the locks with security features. Keyway is also a variable. The tools are a variable, I prefer tools with a slim shaft rounded to keep the keyway wards from interfering with it. On padlocks, the way you hold them is important, i even made a thread a while back on how to hold a padlock, yesterday, googling lockpicking, at about the third page of google, I found the pemix site, he shows a picture of a padlock being picked while being held in the palm of the hand with one finger through the shackle, I don't think I could recommend this hold, but you should examine the way you are holding any lock or the way you are holding picks expecially if your hands are hurting or fatigued, experiment with different ways of holding them. I recommend that you practice picking with no frustrating pressure to open the lock, just hold the lock and watch a tv program that grabs your interest, while picking without any intention except to feel the workings of the parts, do not think about opening the lock, if it opens, relock it immediatly and go on. Keep most of your attention on the television. you are learing to turn off the frustration. If your hands are hurting of fatigued, you are doing this wrong and it it time to reexamine the techinque you are using and try to invent a technique that will avoid muscle fatigue. remember you do not need much force to simply hold a lock nor to press the torkylever,

[omelet]

you could compare this with playing a siimple video game such as mario. The controls are easy to learn and understand completely. But it seems that most of us play the game many times, and will land up with different outcomes each time. Why did i jump in the hole??

The reason could be psychological due to becoming frustrated, or simply a failure of pressing the buttons or picking when or how you want to. You know that jumping in the hole equals death for mister mario, but you somehow can't do it! (and if you can, you couldn't at first)