Need some key machine/punch advice ...

[wry415]

After years and years of mail-ordering keys cut to code, I'm finally ready to buy a low-end (in terms of price) manual key duplicator. The general consensus seems to be that the Ilco 008 is the way to go ... can anyone give me any more detailed feedback, or some alternate machines to consider? The lowest price I've found via Froogle was $299 or so, for the AC model ... has anyone ever come across a better price than that?

I'm also interested in getting a keypunch, almost entirely for Schlage keys, but I'd also want to punch out the occasional Corbin/Russwin key ... are punch machines easily adjustable for different manufacturers, say, with code cards or something like that? So far, the cost of a key punch has been prohibitive ($950-1250 appears to be average), plus it won't punch Schlage Reverse, Numbered/Paracentric, or Quad keyblanks, so there are some glaring disadvantages.

I guess my question is this: would a punch machine be superior enough to a manual duplicator and space/depth keys that it would be worth the high expense? (Of course, only I can make that decision for myself, but feedback from people who've encountered similar dilemmas might very well help me to make that final call.)

Thanks for any information you can provide!

[unjust]

well, what're you going to do with it? that matters a good deal.

personally i paid $40 for my (antique) automatic cutter (local lumber yard that carries an odd assortment of things that include closed hardware store fittings -they wanted $100, i offered $70 if it worked, it didn't, and i talked them down more, turned out the cutoff switch was stuck) and after a good bit of cleaning and oiling, it cuts keys accurate to w.in .001" IF you make 2 passes on it. i suspect a new cutter would help, but don't feel the need to invest as it's very operational, and the extra pass is fine as i use it for locksport and to copy the occasional key for myself or a friend. a single pass on it is noticeably longer than the shove it in and done machines at home despot or even the hardware store.

*very* carefully using shim stock and factory keys a friend and i were able to cut code keys that have tighter tolerances than the factory keys we used to get the spacing from.

now, for a hobby that's fine. if i was a trading lockie, i'd invest in a quality code cutter in short order as my time would be worth more than my fun at precision machining.

[wry415]

Thanks for the info!

Accuracy would be pretty critical for me, as the keys produced would need to operate cylinders without extra effort. I'd be using it mostly for routine key duplication (for tenants' keys, friends, family, etc.) and for originating keys for custom-keyed items sold on eBay et al. Re: the origination of keys using depth/space sets -- I'm not crazy about the idea of having to make one single cut, switch out the depth key for another, make another single cut, and so on, but with punch machines costing what they do, and most often being brand-specific (or, more accurately, system-specific -- Corbin-Russwin alone would require at least 3-4 punch machines to cover most of the bases), I'll certainly get more bang for my buck with a manual duplicator.

I'm pretty mechanically-inclined, but I'm also a bit lazy, so having to make constant adjustments and calibrations would be more hassle than I'd like.

[wry415]

Also, regarding Schlage specifically, none of the restricted keysection families are punchable at all, and that's pretty much a deal-breaker. Until I have an extra $1200 to throw around for a dedicated keypunch, anyhow.

[Evan]

@wry415:

You would need several Pro-lok blue punches to be able to handle restricted keyways:

There is a dedicated one for the B-series SFIC keyways,
There is a dedicated one for the Everest D-family,
There is a dedicated one for the Classic Reverse keyways,
Then there is the standard one which can do Classic Obverse and Everest C-family...

Corbin-Russwin blue punch works for System 70 in the Z class keyways only...

They go for about $1,200+ each retail...

HPC makes a punch machine that uses code card decks but the effort involved in changing the punch heads is a lot more trouble than taking off the cutter head nut on the HPC 1200 code machine... There are only three punch and die sets available with the machine meaning it won't be able to cut some kinds of keys properly, if at all...

Check to see what the retail price is with your supplier on the 1200 PCH machine...

You have the need for an actual code origination machine like the HPC 1200, Framon II or an ITL-9000...

Rather than buying a dedicated punch which can only do one type of manufacturer specific key, save your money and buy a real code machine when you can afford it... Better to wait and get the real thing than it is to have to fiddle around with having the right depth and space keys and a duplicator...

~~ Evan

[wry415]

Sweet, thanks for all the info! My quest for the ultimate gadget has been narrowed down significantly

[cr02452]

Hi - sorry to dig this old thread up again. But somebody mentioned Schlage Classic Reverse keyways...any info on these? What did they look like and what letters/numbers were assigned to them? Are they still in use?

[cr02452]

Hi - sorry to dig this old thread up again. But somebody mentioned Schlage Classic Reverse keyways...any info on these? What did they look like and what letters/numbers were assigned to them? Are they still in use?

Anyone, anyone? Bueller, Bueller??

[Squelchtone]

[moved to Locksmith Business Information sub forum]

[victorylocksmith]

look on craigslist for used punches, they have one pop up occasionally. i scored a used but very well taken care of pak a punch for $300 and i can say for certain, it has easily paid for itself within less than a year. the thing punches keys like a champ and when it starts to get kind of difficult to cut keys, i just spray whatever wd40 i got lying around and i am good to go