Looking for first cutter

[MatrixBlackRock]

Its just for personal use. Also i will never car car keys, its just for locks that i repin or for trying to replace keys for locks that came without. So would an ilco 008 be about right?

When you consider the miniscule cost of blanks versus a machine, you might want to reconsider that, you never know what opportunities the future may bring and having to upgrade the machine later for a few dollar savings now can really cut into your budget.

So my advise is, get the most versatile one you can budget.

Wayne

[nickmannnxx]

Its just for personal use. Also i will never car car keys, its just for locks that i repin or for trying to replace keys for locks that came without. So would an ilco 008 be about right?

When you consider the miniscule cost of blanks versus a machine, you might want to reconsider that, you never know what opportunities the future may bring and having to upgrade the machine later for a few dollar savings now can really cut into your budget.

So my advise is, get the most versatile one you can budget.

Wayne

Not the first time Ive heard that. Maybe Ill just save up a bit and get something better than what I was thinking. In the meantime if anyone happens to see a deal that I shouldnt pass up on a used machine please let me know. Thanks for all the input everyone.

-Nick-

[billdeserthills]

There was an 008 on e-bay, it's a used one looked to cost about $100 and it has a wood case

[Squelchtone]

PA's a big state and I dont recall where you are close to, but here is an interesting little machine in Hershey
http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/4944236871.html

near Philly I swear its the same model (were these issued by a locksmith school at some point, like Foley issue their FB200?
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/4898170520.html

good price on an ILCO 045 HD in Philly
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/4945392851.html

a Foley Belsaw with pin kit and blanks (overpriced in my opinion) in Pittsburgh
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/4933311465.html


anyways, that's all I see at the moment, happy craigslist hunting
Squelchtone

[SteveSharrow]

If you can come up with about $1K or find one used get an Ilco 045HD you will not be disapointed.

[gademsky]

I was reading this tread and thinking of key cutting machines....being inexperienced with locks but not life, I know for example that all doctors are not created equal. So I know all key machines are not created equal, I also know that sometimes you get what you pay for...but not always.

Somewhere in this forum I was hoping to find a simple outline of what key cutting machines can do....from simple function to most complicated function.

I haven't found it yet, but will keep reading. Alternatively, I goggled----PDF comparison of key cutting machines . Didn't come up with much.

Even a list of good questions to ask when looking at a machine would save time, money and mistakes for a guy like me.

[cledry]

I was reading this tread and thinking of key cutting machines....being inexperienced with locks but not life, I know for example that all doctors are not created equal. So I know all key machines are not created equal, I also know that sometimes you get what you pay for...but not always.

Somewhere in this forum I was hoping to find a simple outline of what key cutting machines can do....from simple function to most complicated function.

I haven't found it yet, but will keep reading. Alternatively, I goggled----PDF comparison of key cutting machines . Didn't come up with much.

Even a list of good questions to ask when looking at a machine would save time, money and mistakes for a guy like me.

A lot of it isn't what they will do but how quickly they will do it and how long they will last, and the precision of the bearings etc. quality of the jaws.. My favourite is the Silca Bravo III machines but it really doesn't do much that my least favourite machine the HPC Speedex can do. I can find a Speedex machine for around $200 on the used market the Bravo III will fetch about 6 times that used. If you are in the business and time is really crucial buy the better machine, if you are a hobbyist or cutting a few keys for friends or at the flea market then a less expensive machine will do fine.

[Jacob Morgan]

I was reading this tread and thinking of key cutting machines....Even a list of good questions to ask when looking at a machine would save time, money and mistakes for a guy like me.

What do you plan on doing with a key machine--how many keys a year would you expect to cut? Just like tinkering with locks? Planning on opening a store front locksmith shop and cutting dozens of keys a day? Looking for a workhorse duplicator or looking for one machine that can do different things?

[tpark]

With a set of space and depth keys, and a duplicator, it's possible to make keys. If you're tinkering with locks, you can do a lot with a duplicator, but you're limited to what you can use as a template. I've cut keys with a file, then used the duplicator to make more. I have an old Cole/national cutter and an HPC mini-speedex as duplicators - they work well for small volumes, but I would want something better for higher volume work. I've duplicated keys for Schlage, Weiser, Master, WB, Sargent, and American locks, and both machines work well. For less precise locks like these, it's possible to code cut a key, then use the duplicator. For Best, it works best if they're all cut to code. I would verify that the jaws would hold the keys that I want to work with. I am a hobbyist though. Cledry's assessment seems about right - I don't have the fancy duplicator, but what I have has been sufficient.

[Silverado]

I picked up a brand new, still in the box Ilco Dyna-mite for $75. It's not bad, does need a little work because one of the springs in the jaw is crushed and not springy anymore (but the jaw still does work) and it won't be an expensive fix.
Also got an Ilco 025 from an old auto repair shop, it's covered in dust and grease and I'm pretty sure I've never seen any tool so neglected...It was making a horrible noise as it ran but a shot of WD40 on the cutter shaft where the oil cup would go and it was quiet as a mouse. Aside from scrubbing all the grease off of it I'll need a new oil cup, a new carriage stud, a carriage handle (optional). I like that the 025 has four position jaws on it and what I've cleaned so far has surprisingly cleaned up really nice.
I'm not a professional, but I do plan on getting into it hopefully within this next year. The Dyna-mite would have fulfilled any of the needs I have right now, but the 025 seemed too good to pass up for $50.

[cledry]

I was reading this tread and thinking of key cutting machines....Even a list of good questions to ask when looking at a machine would save time, money and mistakes for a guy like me.

What do you plan on doing with a key machine--how many keys a year would you expect to cut? Just like tinkering with locks? Planning on opening a store front locksmith shop and cutting dozens of keys a day? Looking for a workhorse duplicator or looking for one machine that can do different things?

Dozens of keys, try hundreds! We are a small shop and still do a few hundred a day. Larger shops in big cities, NY, Chicago, Boston etc. will have 3 or 4 guys cutting keys all day every day.

[gademsky]

Thanks. I have learned a lot. I am more a tinkerer although I do have enough tenants who are losing cheap lock keys that a simple machine would save a trip to the locksmith every week.

In my spare time I like picking locks and tinkering now with higher security locks. My own business and personnel doors were master keyed to multi lock about 10 years ago...not that I am close to even playing with that type lock or the abloy locks.

But it would be fun to cut some keys for kwikset, schlage, master locks. To make extra keys for desks, file cabinets, garage doors. Then lately I have been picking best padlocks...I plan on learning about lock cores.

Seems everything I do with locks is increasing my speed at picking and understanding of how things work.

A low end, inexpensive key machine makes sense. I have wasted a lot of money on crap over the years, at least the lock stuff has value when my kids have the final estate sale.....not like an expensive dinner or another pair of shoes....and locks are an intellectual challenge.

[Jacob Morgan]

If you just want to occasionally duplicate a normal key, you could think about a used Foley-Belsaw 200. A lot of them show up used having never been used. Someone takes the Foley-Belsaw course then loses interest and never bother setting it up, or they cut spare keys to their house then never touch it again. Probably not much risk in buying one that is worn out.

The main thing when buying a used FB200 is to make sure all the parts go with it, or at least price in the missing parts. It should have three cutting wheels, three tracing heads, a belt for the motor, the motor, and two set up keys. I think someone posted the manual to this site a while back, I would read through it first before buying one. If you look at eBay you might have the better luck searching the newest posts first, especially the buy-it-now offers. That way you might be able to snag one before eBay closes the listing or someone else finds it. Was able to buy one on eBay, with shipping, for under $100 several months ago. It is a little finicky to set up and it uses bushings instead of bearings, the vise jaws are not that great, etc., but it has made me plenty of keys that work, even some master keys using space-and-depth keys.