Key Programmers and Code Cutting

[rsanche6]

Hi-
My goal is to specialize in replace and re-programming factory remotes, keys and transponder keys. With so much equipment on the market these days and not knowing really what to look for I’m quite overwhelmed at this point. I was hoping someone with this type of experience would be able to make some recommendations on (Key Programmers, Code Cutting Machine and Software).
Thanks for your help..

[thelockoutguys]

Im guessingyou have deep pockets and have money set aside to get started doing this. If so contact the guys over at keyless ride.
http://www.keylessride.com/locksmiths/default.asp

[rsanche6]

Hi-
Nice, thanks for the info.. I also found the following key program machines when I did an internet search, what are your thoughts on them?? SBS, T300, MVP and AD-900..
Thanks for your help..

[Eyes_Only]

The T-300 is a copied device made in China of the original Advanced Diagnostics T-Code programmer. It cannot be updated and I've heard that many of the ones you can buy on eBay does not work right a lot of times. Plus it is illegal so I wouldn't get it for just those reasons.

MVP and the new MVP-Pro are the real deal and I heard are excellent machines. You have to use tokens for each programming you do and you have to buy those tokens (price of them vary depending on how many you buy) but the price is much lower than a T-Code Pro.

And somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think the AD-900 is just a cloning tool. I don't think it will program a vehicle to accept new keys, just copies the chip value of an existing key onto a new blank cloning key just to make copies.

[zeke79]

Don't forget about the advanced diagnostics manuals as they will give you info on which cars you can do onboard programming on if you have one working key (some require two working keys). The methods in the book will take longer than a cloner but the book is much cheaper. It will not eliminate the need for a cloner however but it is nice to have on the truck.

[globallockytoo]

A competitive option to AD900 that does almost everything and is getting rave reviews across the locksmith world, is Zed-Bull. It is made in Turkey, but the service and support is reportedly better than AD.

Also look into the 3D-Pro machine. It is probably one of, if not the best machine available for the mechanical component of virtually all keys.

[Eyes_Only]

I agree on the 3D Pro machine, I've heard great things about it with more updates and capabilities on the way. Only down side about that machine I heard is you sometimes need to call the company for tech support to adjust its cutting alignment.

[eppiotic]

That 3D pro machine looks epic. One of the guys from MKLA (a local locksmith association) brought one in for us to see work... that thing was amazing. The Tri-Code HS was a pretty cool looking machine too because it would read your key and detect wear and compensate for it on the duplicate.

MVP Pro and T-Code are the best programmers we've heard of, the AD900 Pro is great because you can clone pretty pretty much any brand of cloneable key with it. Our RW4 is ok but we have a terrible time getting it to clone anything lol.

We have an NGS machine which is strictly for Fords its ok, but I'd recommend a machine with more capabilities. We bought it when transponders first started hitting and Ford was a heavy hitter for us. And we also have a TKO which is pretty decent all around.

[globallockytoo]

I'm not a huge fan of AD due to their pricing policy. I have been quite vocal about this on other forums and kicked off them for "not towing the AD praise line".

There is no doubt their products are industry leaders and the product support is top notch, I'm told.

I do find it troubling that the company would only apply for a patent on the product after pirated copies had made it to market.

Why can the asian knock-offs charge $600 for an MVP-Pro (identical to original) and AD charge significantly more? (Cos theyre fleecing the industry)

Did you know that they will sell the product to almost anyone? Including mechanics, tow truck companies etc etc. Talk about selling out the locksmith industry.

(Not happy Jan!)

[ElAbogado]

I'm not a huge fan of AD due to their pricing policy. I have been quite vocal about this on other forums and kicked off them for "not towing the AD praise line".

There is no doubt their products are industry leaders and the product support is top notch, I'm told.

I do find it troubling that the company would only apply for a patent on the product after pirated copies had made it to market.

Why can the asian knock-offs charge $600 for an MVP-Pro (identical to original) and AD charge significantly more? (Cos theyre fleecing the industry)

Did you know that they will sell the product to almost anyone? Including mechanics, tow truck companies etc etc. Talk about selling out the locksmith industry.

(Not happy Jan!)

Now another point of view about the T300. This machine is a copy of the AD100 by Advanced Diagnostics. I have a friend who owns the T300 and I have personally seen it work.

The Original AD100 sells for several thousand dollars. After purchase, one must also purchase "tokens" to load into the machine to perform various programming services. Typically, tokens can cost between $20.00 and $40.00 each. If one were to clear all keys from a Ford computer, then program an original key, each step or action would require 1 token. This would cost between $40.00 and $80.00 in tokens.

The T300 comes loaded with 100 tokens. The count will remain at 100 tokens no matter how many times you use it. It appears that the token requirement of the AD100 was not incorporated into the T300 or was disabled. You will never need to buy tokens.

It is true that you can't update the T300, but if you buy version 9.2 or above, you probably won't have to for quite some time. Purchase price of the T300 starts at $155.00 and up. Shipping is usually about $75.00 from China via DHL.

Is the T300 a pirated copy of the AD100? Probably. What you have to ask yourself is whether or not you have a moral problem using it as opposed to the AD100. Many do not for reasons stated above.

[eppiotic]

I don' support piracy. :/ If that means spending more ill spend more, or not buy the machine. I couldn't in good conscience buy a stolen device. If the tokens were that big a deal, id just buy the t-code.

[ElAbogado]

I don' support piracy. :/ If that means spending more ill spend more, or not buy the machine. I couldn't in good conscience buy a stolen device. If the tokens were that big a deal, id just buy the t-code.

One more point.... Advanced Diagnostics is very nasty about selling updates to their software. For example, a Ford update for one year could cost $400.00 or more, and multiply that times the number of cars you will program, which is MANY!

I'm like you, I prefer the original w/o problems, but just look at what AD is doing to the locksmith. It's almost extortion on their part.

I have a real RW-4 cloner, but only because I bought it from a friend on the cheap. Who knows, I might have bought the AD90 from China had the RW-4 not appeared.

BTW, have you ever in your life downloaded an .mp3 song without paying? A movie perhaps? I thought so....

[FarmerFreak]

I feel I should straighten some of the facts here. Where I work we have an NGS, TKO, MVP (I believe this is the AD100), and an MVP Pro. I mention this because I have had a good amount of hands on with all of these tools.

Typically, tokens can cost between $20.00 and $40.00 each.

The amount the tokens costs varies pending on how many you purchase. When we purchased our MVP, the tokens cost 10.00 each. I believe they have gone up in price, though I am not aware of them going over 15.00 each. Unless of course you are only trying to buy a small amount at a time.

If one were to clear all keys from a Ford computer, then program an original key, each step or action would require 1 token. This would cost between $40.00 and $80.00 in tokens.

This isn't a good example. If you delete all the keys in a Ford. Then the vehicle would immediately be in programing mode and you would simply cycle the keys you want to work and you would be finished. This only costs one token.
A better example would be if you wanted to program a Chrysler and you don't have an external source for SKIM codes. Then they will charge you a token to pull the SKIM code, and another token for programing the vehicle. Yet, on a VW if it can pull the pin it doesn't charge you.

Also note, that on the newer MVP Pro. You can program a vehicle all day long as many times as you want and it will only charge you one token. However this hinges on the fact that you can't unplug the machine or turn it off to do this. But this is important, if you program 2 out of 3 keys and simply missed the step when you were suppose to add the third key. You have the chance of correcting your error without being charged a second token.

One more point.... Advanced Diagnostics is very nasty about selling updates to their software. For example, a Ford update for one year could cost $400.00 or more, and multiply that times the number of cars you will program, which is MANY!

I assume that you are talking about the T-code. Which is the same programmer as the MVP, except that the MVP has free updates anytime you feel like hooking it up online. MVP=tokens, but free updates, T-code=infinite uses, but paid updates.

I personally don't like the TKO we have. It's ok, but there are a lot of vehicles it claims to be able to program (and you have to pay for the each of the updates that may or may not work). It acts like it programs them, yet on a lot of vehicle we don't even bother with it because it either doesn't work, or you have to try it multiple times just to get the vehicle to accept the new key. We don't have these problems with the Advanced diagnostics programmers.

If you can't tell, I am a fan of AD. This is based on my personal experience. Every year I like them more and Ilco less. Every time we think of calling Ilco tech support, we usually end up programing the vehicle with our MVP so the customer doesn't have to wait all day.

We also have a RW-4. It works well. We haven't had it too long and I've never had one of the other cloners to compare it to.

[ElAbogado]

Typically, tokens can cost between $20.00 and $40.00 each.

The amount the tokens costs varies pending on how many you purchase. When we purchased our MVP, the tokens cost 10.00 each. I believe they have gone up in price, though I am not aware of them going over 15.00 each. Unless of course you are only trying to buy a small amount at a time.

Also note, that on the newer MVP Pro. You can program a vehicle all day long as many times as you want and it will only charge you one token. However this hinges on the fact that you can't unplug the machine or turn it off to do this. But this is important, if you program 2 out of 3 keys and simply missed the step when you were suppose to add the third key. You have the chance of correcting your error without being charged a second token.

One more point.... Advanced Diagnostics is very nasty about selling updates to their software. For example, a Ford update for one year could cost $400.00 or more, and multiply that times the number of cars you will program, which is MANY!

I assume that you are talking about the T-code. Which is the same programmer as the MVP, except that the MVP has free updates anytime you feel like hooking it up online. MVP=tokens, but free updates, T-code=infinite uses, but paid updates.

Michael Hyde (the auto guru) at http://www.michealhyde.com prices 10 MVP tokens at $410.00. That's $41.00 each.
see here: http://www.michaelhyde.com/category_s/47.htm

Also, If you think about buying a T-Code, look at this page first. It should awaken you to what is really going on at AD.
http://www.michaelhyde.com/category_s/59.htm

I have and use a RW-4 as well, it's a top notch machine and has never failed me in identifying or cloning a cloneable transponder key. The only drawback is that Ilco engineered it to work with Ilco keys only, and not the cheaper cloneable keys made by the other manufacturers. Ilco's support has been top notch, answering all questions and resolving issues in minutes over the phone. SILCA has been great with providing email support and updates/programs for the RW-4 as well.

[globallockytoo]

See what I mean?

Those prices are unbelievable!

This is the reason I would likely prefer to buy a knock-off than the AD product. They are legal robbers!

AD may well be a big talking company with all the bells and whistles and they may even support the products well (would want to, at those prices).....but I think I would be far better served by a Zed-Bull. More ROI, excellent support etc.

The primary reason I stay away from the auto-transponder market is due to AD.

Would I use the knock-off's now? I am still on the fence with that. I can definitely see the value of a temporary quick gain using an inferior product, perhaps to save up to buy the better (supported) unit. But at the unbelievable blatant rip-off prices the AD charge, no.....no way jose!