Home made key code cutter

[ckc123]

I need some advice on making my own key code cutter.

I have access to an old X/Y/Z (controllable up to the 50 micron level !!) and I'm going to be controlling it with an Arduino board to move the stepper motor.

the "stage" is already setup to move in the X/Y, and I'm seeking some advice from the community on what I should consider/be aware of when building my cutter.. (Mostly for SC1/SC4/KW1 keys)


1) what size motor should I use? (assume speed is not an an issue, and I can cut as slow as needed) is 1/4 HP enough? and about speed?
2) what type of cutter should I get?
3) Any advice on the clamp that holds the key?
4) any advice on how to align the shoulder/tip?

5) any special "pattern" that I should cut the key with? should I follow the same "pattern" That a duplicator would?

6) once I'm cutting the "depth" of the cut/position, how should I move into and out of the cut (what angle and what height so I get the appropriate "V" in the cut?


Thanks!

[fgarci03]

Ckc123, I can't help you on this issue.. But since you mentioned you were going to use an arduino, that popped on my radars

I'm going to ask you to update this thread as you go on, as this is a subject that I'm into.
I think it's a great idea and will help someone to build one for sure!

Good luck!

[ckc123]

Ckc123, I can't help you on this issue.. But since you mentioned you were going to use na arduino, that popped on my radars

I'm going to ask you to update this thread as you go on, as this is a subject that I'm into.
I think it's a great idea and will help someone to build one for sure!

Good luck!

ahh.. well here is your update after 3 hours of playing around.

1) I have the stage moving in X & Y and and get each step accuracy movement down to 0.003"
2) I have the specs to cut my first sample key (Schlage SC1)

long SCHLAGEShoulderToFirstCut=0.231;
long SCHLAGECenterToCenter=0.156;
long SCHLAGEDepthIncrement=0.015;
long SCHLAGESpaceIncrement=0.156;
long SCHLAGEDepths[] = {0.335,0.320,0.305,0.290,0.275,0.260,0.245,0.230,0.215,0.200};
long SCHLAGESpaces[] = {0,0.231,0.387,0.543,0.699,0.855,1.001};
long SCHLAGEMACS=7;
long SCHLAGEStepProgression=2;
long SCHLAGEAngleOfCut=100; //degrees
long SCHLAGECutRootWidth=0.031;

3) I have my flags almost working to reset the stage to the "0,0" position to make sure the cuts start in the same place.

4) Found a motor to mount the cutting wheel (not sure if it's good enough until I get a wheel).. it's a 3500 rpm 1/25th HP (which once its spinning and the slow/accurate speed I think will be ok)

5) going to go find a way to mount and shoulder set the key (local hobby machine shop here I come)

once it's mounted, then I can work on the code to "trace" the pattern of the key on the stage.

another 1-2 days of tinkering and I think it's will be done..

[Achyfellow]

You could make an key_code=>cut_depth conversion function so you can just type in the key code

[easy-e]

1) what size motor should I use? (assume speed is not an an issue, and I can cut as slow as needed) is 1/4 HP enough? and about speed?
2) what type of cutter should I get?
3) Any advice on the clamp that holds the key?
4) any advice on how to align the shoulder/tip?
5) any special "pattern" that I should cut the key with? should I follow the same "pattern" That a duplicator would?
6) once I'm cutting the "depth" of the cut/position, how should I move into and out of the cut (what angle and what height so I get the appropriate "V" in the cut?

Thanks!

You should buy the appropriate V cutter. Then you can index to position 1, cut to the correct dept, index to position 2, cut to the correct dept, etc. Do back out from the cut between indexing though;)

If you are using a flat cutter and angling it, the bottom of each cut won't be the correct shape. Think trying to cut an inside corner with a skill saw. I believe you would need a 90 or 100 degree V cutter for those types of keys, but can't remember right now. Those cutters tend to be pretty expensive. If you can find someone selling a really old belt driven key duplicator you would have all of the parts and it may even be cheaper than buying one new blade. Then you can just CNC it!

The motor shouldn't matter that much, but the larger the motor the faster you can go without stalling it. 1/4HP sounds reasonable.

As for clamping I would get a replacement jaw for a key machine. Most of them are 4 sided and hold lots of different types of keys. The key is indexed from the bow butting up to the side of the holder.

You could make an key_code=>cut_depth conversion function so you can just type in the key code

For 3 or 4 sets of info that should be fine. I've run into problems with stuff like this before which is why I would suggest anything like that should go on an SD card. (Then you can also edit it easily on a computer and don't have to reprogram the thing) You can then have your program search for the type of key and then read all of the data into ram. If you create a bunch of these using tables in the software then they will all get stored in RAM. If you use PROGMEM to store them in flash they will still take up space and it's a pain to use.

Just be conscious about how much RAM you are using. I've run out on plenty of projects. There are lots of different arduino boards out there but most of the ones I've used only had 2k of ram and that got used up extremely fast. The worst one was where every part worked great individually but then I added more than 2 components together it would crash and nothing would work. It took me years to realize what the real problem was.

[cledry]

I can sell you a little direct drive Ilco for not too much, brand new . If interested I'll respond to a PM.

[ckc123]

You should buy the appropriate V cutter. Then you can index to position 1, cut to the correct dept, index to position 2, cut to the correct dept, etc. Do back out from the cut between indexing though;)

I was thinking the same thing.. a 100 degree cutter would be easier then worrying about the angled travel..

I've run into problems with stuff like this before which is why I would suggest anything like that should go on an SD card. (Then you can also edit it easily on a computer and don't have to reprogram the thing) You can then have your program search for the type of key and then read all of the data into ram. If you create a bunch of these using tables in the software then they will all get stored in RAM. If you use PROGMEM to store them in flash they will still take up space and it's a pain to use.

know exactly what you mean.. I've had a few projects hit that 2k boundary as well.. I was thinking the SD card option for a second version once I have the basic one working.. that or a web based interface since I have one of the networking cards that I wanted to put into a project..

[keysman]

Take a look at the Framon 1&2 at the bottom of the page is a PDF with a pretty good working part description .( their page is under construction right now )
Or look at the foley belsaw attachments to make their machine into a code cutter
Do you have access to a lathe and a mill ? do you have the experience to manufacture the parts ?
Motor.. my Framon 2 has a 1/10 hp motor ,,, works fine
Cutter…. 10MC or 14MC ( MC = milling cutter)
You are starting a very ambitious project , the arduino is certainly capable of running the stepper motors

[mcsteve]

You should buy the appropriate V cutter. Then you can index to position 1, cut to the correct dept, index to position 2, cut to the correct dept, etc. Do back out from the cut between indexing though;)

I was thinking the same thing.. a 100 degree cutter would be easier then worrying about the angled travel..

I've run into problems with stuff like this before which is why I would suggest anything like that should go on an SD card. (Then you can also edit it easily on a computer and don't have to reprogram the thing) You can then have your program search for the type of key and then read all of the data into ram. If you create a bunch of these using tables in the software then they will all get stored in RAM. If you use PROGMEM to store them in flash they will still take up space and it's a pain to use.

know exactly what you mean.. I've had a few projects hit that 2k boundary as well.. I was thinking the SD card option for a second version once I have the basic one working.. that or a web based interface since I have one of the networking cards that I wanted to put into a project..

For a project like this, unless you need it fully self-contained, it might not be a bad idea to keep the Arduino code relatively dumb. Let it handle the low level stuff; moving the cutter to the right positions, etc. Write a simple program on a PC to deal with calculating those positions from key codes, and let it control the Arduino via serial commands.

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

If you are looking for a self contained unit and you are comfortable with linux, then maybe think about using a RasberyPI. You will need driver boards for the steppers/servo motors anyway, so i guess it doesn't matter what drives those boards.

[ckc123]

Well. at the end of the second day, I have a stage working that will do the movements to cut the key (assuming a 100 degree blade, with only straight cuts required).

I made a video of the arm in action (cutting a Schlage key at 63636 code). I added a little "wiggle" at each major cut point to better illustrate the movements..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKr9LBYz ... e=youtu.be

Now I just need to find the right coupler so I can mount a blade on the motor I want to use (this is the hard part)..

[jeffmoss26]

Very interesting!!

[fgarci03]

That is amazing!
How did you connect the hardware to the arduino?

Congrats man!

[ckc123]

IT LIVES!!!!!!! hahahahahahaha

Not the most user friendly, but does exactly what I need it to..

Total Cost = $206 in parts that I didn't have on hand.. ($80 for a motor since the old one did not have the correct arbor size, $120 for the cutting blade. $6 for the mini clamp)

Now. include the cost of the high precision X/Y stage $20,000 (yeah it was from a machine that we paid 20k for.. paper weights now..)

[fgarci03]

Congratulations mate!

The cuts on the key look pretty nice!
Would you care to post a full tutorial on this? And maybe a video of a key being cutted?

It really looks insanelly cool, brilliant idea you had there!