Foley Belsaw 200 - difference between cutting wheels?

[Jacob Morgan]

Recently acquired a Foley Belsaw 200 off of eBay, $75 with shipping, it had never been turned on. It was missing two of the guides that go on the depth micrometer and it was missing the set up keys, but even at that probably a good deal (about $24 worth of parts). I know it is not a professional grade machine, was just looking for something to learn with.

I'm studying it, trying to see how to set it up and use it the best way and one thing puzzles me, it has a \/ shaped cutter for code cutting, and a \| shaped cutter for duplicating. I'm a little doubtful that anyone uses one of these machines for true code cutting (using the depth and the optional space micrometers) but the machine comes with that cutter installed and the calibration procedure is mostly based on that cutter (the set up keys go with it). What is the advantage of using the duplication cutter over the code cutter when duplicating keys? On YouTube it seems to be that people use the code cutter for duplication? Does the duplicating cutter reduce the risk of cutting the shoulder of the key?

[GWiens2001]

There should be no problem using the "V" cutter for duplicating. The |/ cutter can be used to code cut, too, though the other one is easier to use. It should have come with a slotted cutter, too.

You can use a couple of blanks to calibrate the machine just as easily. I never used the micrometer for code cutting, but rather for calibrating the cutter depth.

Adjust it so the cutter does not touch the key blank when the tracer is touching the other blank. Then gradually use the micrometer to bring the blank closer to the cutting wheel. When you just barely start to hear the cutter touch the wheel (while running), stop. Then you can measure both the original blank (your 'to be duplicated key) and the other key, they should be the same. If the cut is too deep, use the micrometer to back it off until they measure the same. Now you can try duplicating a key.

Keep in mind that I am not a professional locksmith, so if one of them offer another method, trust them over me. But that is how I would do it.

Gordon

[MacGnG1]

The manual is really helpful for explaining all the cutters.

Mine didn't come with a manual so I email'd FB and they sent me a PDF. There is also a guy on eBay that sells printed manuals.

Here is a link to the manual: https://www.scribd.com/doc/297886108/Foley-Belsaw-Model-200-Key-Machine-Manual

[Jacob Morgan]

Thanks for the link, FB also sells copies of the handbook, but if they are emailing them out on request I suppose they are not too concerned with the copyright.

One thing I take exception to in the book is the idea that the bronze bushings (or plain bearings) that support the cutting shaft do not need to be lubricated. Plain bearings require an oil film to support a rotating shaft at speed. It was easier to turn it by hand after applying some light oil.

[Sinifar]

the Foley 200 does make for a nice key generator, if you have a good set of depth and space keys cut to the first cut which allows you to rock in the pin seat. These need to be made on something like a Framon 2 or HPC 1200 --

Other than that - it is a slow machine, take you time and do not horse the thing, like Dremel a little bit at a time and the thing will get it done.

I carry the 200 in the truck for anything I can't punch with the 1200 -- just saying .. ask if you want to know more.

Sinifar

[kwoswalt99-]

Did ebay change their policy on locksmith equipment? Most of the key machine listings used to be removed, but I checked today and there's a bunch on there.

[Jacob Morgan]

It does seem like a couple of FB 200's show up each week on eBay as of late.

I've enjoyed the machine so far and a few weeks ago used some space and depth keys to make a key for a master keying project. Also cut a flat key, and now I just need an excuse to go to the bank to see if it works on the safety deposit box. Flat key cutting was tedious compared to normal keys.

The book says to rotate the cutters by hand until they just touch the blanks when setting calibrating the depth--it says to do that because not all cutters are completely round. That did not sound right (milling cutters and such that general size are not out of round like that), so I put a dial indicator on the shaft of the machine and turned it by hand. The shaft had about 3 thousandths of an inch of run out. It is not a case of out of round cutters, it is a case of run out in the shaft because the holes for the shaft bushings are probably not all perfectly in line. I still like the machine, and 3 thousandths is probably not that bad, but I thought that the explanation in the handbook of why the cutters do not evenly contact the key was amusing.

I would still be interested to know if anyone uses, or has used, the space and depth micrometers to cut by code. Or if anyone has done some homemade modifications to set stops to given spaces and depths or even just give readouts of spaces and depths where one could zero out the readings so they could directly cut the code without having to add or subtract numbers every time. Space and depth keys are great, but it would be nice to be able to cut anything by code.

[Sinifar]

The problem here is this - if you want to cut by specs, then you need a rather large book, like the Framon 2 book which lists about 200 different shoulder to first space, then cut to cut centers - then depths.

For example - Schlage - Shoulder to first center .231, cut to cut .156 ...

0 - .335, 1- .320, 2 .305, 3 - 290, 4 - 275, 5- .260, 6- .245, 7- .230, 8- .215, 9- .200 / MACS - 7

There are way too many to list out each individual cutting data.

[Jacob Morgan]

The problem here is this - if you want to cut by specs, then you need a rather large book, like the Framon 2 book which lists about 200 different shoulder to first space, then cut to cut centers...

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. It sounds like it would be better to save up for a deal on an HPC Blitz instead of trying to modify the FB 200 to cut by code and then doing a lot of math each time.

[Sinifar]

Not to stir the pot, but in any case with any code cutting gear you may end up doing math ...

For example - using the one I used above - Schlage --

For a Foley 200 depth and space key cut to "1" - which is .320 -- on a Foley you need the following micrometer settings...

0 - -.015, that is over turn .015 / 1 - .000 this is the depth key -- 2 - .015, 3 - .030, 4- .045, 5- .060 6- .075, 7- .090, 8- .105, 9- .120

Everything is done in numbers, so that in the future things can be cut without having to go back and adjust the lock to suit the keys, or worse file keys so that they work ... good machining / locksmith work makes for smooth working locks.

Sinifar